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Soviet aces in Korea sky
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Thread: Soviet aces in Korea sky

  1. #1
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    Default Soviet aces in Korea sky

    Do somebody hear about particiation of Soviet fliers in the Korea in 1950-53?

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

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    Yes, it's been quite well documented in Stalins Secret War (the name might be inaccurate?). Although the Soviets had their aces, many were shot down by the USAF. Also covers the incarceration of USAF Sabre pilots in the Soviet Union, where they were interogated for information on the Sabre. Sadly for them, as their being the Soviet Union was such a huge secret, they were never returned home after the war.

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    Recently the Russian Gerneral Staff of Army declassified the data about the participation of Soviet aces in Korea. This is quite amazing information IMO.
    http://www.airwar.ru/history/aces/ac...skyknight.html
    Its noticed that since 1950-53 the soviet had conducted 1872 sky combats and shoted down 1 106 american aircrafts ( 650 of them were the F-86 "Sabre"). Soviet loss - 335 fighters.Mig-15
    The highest score Soviet pilot is Sutyagin Nikolay Vasiljevich - 21 victories.( 15 of them were Sabres)

    BTW the famouse soviet WW2 ace Ivan Kojedub also took part in the preparation of fliers groups in the Korea. He didn't took part in the combats .

    Guncamera of Mig-15 3 march of 1953. Shoting down the F-86
    Last edited by Chevan; 02-17-2007 at 02:21 PM.

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

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    Quote Originally Posted by 32Bravo View Post
    Although the Soviets had their aces, many were shot down by the USAF. .
    What are you talking about?

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

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    Sorry, Chevan, I have no written references and am going from what I have read and seen on TV documentories in the past. However, I rather think 335 Mig 15s (if those figures are correct) could be considered many.

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    I think that the best was Yevgeny Pepelyayev who shot down 19 US planes over "MiG Alley".

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    Well, if you were in command of the Soviet 'mission' to Korea and you had lost 335 of your Migs to American and British fighters, wouldn't you want to tell 'Uncle Joe' that you had killed twice as many of their planes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post
    I think that the best was Yevgeny Pepelyayev who shot down 19 US planes over "MiG Alley".
    Sory mate the Y.Pepelyayev was the second right after the Sutyagin ( 21 victories)


    The Pepelyaev and his Mig
    The list of best soviet aces is here
    http://www.avia-hobby.ru/publ/sovaces/sovaces_5053.html
    1.Sutyagin ( 21 victories)some sources calls 22 victories.
    2.Pepelyaev(19)
    3.Shykin and Oskin (15)
    4.Shebestov (13)
    5.Smorchkov (12)
    ......

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

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    Quote Originally Posted by 32Bravo View Post
    Sorry, Chevan, I have no written references and am going from what I have read and seen on TV documentories in the past. However, I rather think 335 Mig 15s (if those figures are correct) could be considered many.
    Sure 335 is many who is doubt. Like and 650 Sabres.

    I don't wish to overstimate here the soviet aces and disparage the americans pilot.
    I just found the statistic of soviet victories ans loses are very interesting.
    I wish to notice you here i will considered only Soviet pilot, not the N/Korean and China ( which also fought on the Mig-15 and had a much less medium skill of combat experience.
    They had a more rate of losses from the US fighters.

    Cheers.

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

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    Sory mate the Y.Pepelyayev was the second right after the Sutyagin ( 21 victories)

    Thanks for the correction.

    I wish to notice you here i will considered only Soviet pilot, not the N/Korean and China ( which also fought on the Mig-15 and had a much less medium skill of combat experience.
    They had a more rate of losses from the US fighters

    No question that is the key of the losses, the korean pilots probably were ride mules before get in the Mig-15 cockpit.

    792 MIg were claimed as destroyed by the USAF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post
    792 MIg were claimed as destroyed by the USAF.
    Well this is look like true.
    But from this number of Mig only 335 were piloted by the soviets flyers.

    Certainly compare the leve of Chinas r Korean pilots with americans pilots is sensless.
    But i wish to say there were a own Korean aces
    For instance Kan Jon Duk
    Who shoted down 10 enemies aircrafts since 1950-53. But this is already another thread.

    BTW Panzercnaker did you hear about "Black Tuesday of Strategic Command" ( 23 october of 1951) the combat where groupe of 44 Mig-15 had meeted the large groupe of B-29 escorted by F-80 and shoted 13 B-29 and 3 F-80, soviet loses was 1 (!!!) Mig-15?

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

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    Default Disputed losses Sabre - Mig 15

    Do not wish to Pooh-Pooh on anyones parade chaps, but check this out:


    Review of archived and previously classified documents released after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991 disputes the numbers of claims by U.S. pilots, stating that the VVS lost only 345 MiGs.[citation needed] In turn the Soviets claimed to have shot down more than 1,300 U.N. aircraft including more than 650 Sabres. However, USAF records revealed that there were only about 660 Sabres deployed to the Korean theater in the entire war. This fact makes the Soviet claims highly dubious. USAF records also show 224 F-86s lost to all causes, including non-combat. Many air engagements are corroborated by both sides, but with conflicting claims of kills
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-86_Sabre

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    Quote Originally Posted by 32Bravo View Post
    Do not wish to Pooh-Pooh on anyones parade chaps, but check this out:
    Actualy Bravo during the Cold war it was a common tend to exceed its own victories and reduce the enemies. Its' not surprising together with common war there were a information war too.
    For instance http://www.airwar.ru/history/aces/ac.../sutyagin.html
    Until now in THE USA they attempt to touch up the total of war. In the Encyclopedia of aviation (New York, 1977 ) it is noted that in all American pilots in the time of war biased 2.300 "communists" aircraft (USSR, China and PDRK ), the loss BY THE USA and their allies - 114. Relationship - 20:1. It is imposing?
    However, the most serious American specialists even in the 1950 yy, when total losses it was hide difficultly (see the book "AirForces - the decisive force in Korea", Toronto - New York - London, 1957 ) they noted that USAF only in the combat struggles lost about 2.000 aircraft, loss of "cominists" aircraft they then evaluated more modestly - approximately into 1.000 aircraft. However, these numbers are distant from the truth.
    so 2300....
    then 1000....
    now already 729 ( as it said honest Panzerknacker).....
    You could easy find the contradactions dear Bravo.
    Moreover today in the Russain archives was opened the datas of loses of the both China's and N.Koreans Mig-15 - 231 only was shot down by the UN airforces.
    So you could calculate the total loses of Mig-15 in Korea- 335+231 = 566 (!!!)
    So as could you see american datas could be easy refuted by the Russian archive datas.
    So where is true?

    The poblems of WIKI article is that it based mostly on the Cold war datas which as we have see softly saying not all times objective.
    The Russian Archives were opened after the Cold war ended in 1993-96 and i don't see any reason to doubt in material ( simply becouse i don't see the reason to falsify it today).
    I could admit the figure of 650 hited F-86 is not correct ( it's not easy right to define the model of hited fighter through the gun camera). But honestly speaking i strongly doubt in the figures of total loses of 224 F-86s in Korea which you take from Wiki too ( and as you know Wiki is not the first-hand sources).
    May you show us another source. Could we learn the true?

    Cheers.

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

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    One thing is to claim 792 aircraft...and other is actually shot down that number,the real figure was lower.

    some link with helpful info.

    http://www.korean-war.com/AirWar/Air...-LossList.html

    http://www.korean-war.com/AirChronology.html

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    Thanks a lot mate for the links.
    As could we see in anyway the UN forces lost in at least 3 times more arcrafts then the USSR/China/PDRK and this is characterly.
    Moreover as could you se the figures of total lost F-86 in you source is 275 but in Wiki was called "only 224".
    This fact just proved in US even today are not known real figures of lost in Korea.

    Cheers.

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

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