BAR Gunner Role

[Siberian Rifleman]

Hello guys I'm wondering, are the BAR Gunners only responsible for surpressing fire during combat, or do they also assault ?

[Hosenfield]

i don't really know for sure, but the BAR is famous for having bad recoil. It is more useful stationary with the bipod.

[Man of Stoat]

Originally Posted by Siberian Rifleman

Hello guys I'm wondering, are the BAR Gunners only responsible for surpressing fire during combat, or do they also assault ?

It's used for suppressing fire in both attack and defence - it's the squad's mobile firepower.

However, it's a heavy rifle rather than a serious light machine gun, and (particularly for the versions without bipods) is difficult to maintain concentrated, sustained fire.

[IronFist]

The BAR is a squads/sections machinegun. Every section has one or two. In todays military in a section (8-10guys) theres 2 LMG'S if they are a NATO country and it would fire 556 rounds. Back in WWII for the americans the BAR was the secitons firepower and went with the section everywhere it went in an attack/defense role. Usually a 2 man team one man has the gun and the other carrys the rounds. The BAR is known for having heavy rounds.

[Twitch1]

We had use of the Stoner 63 weapons system in Vietnam. It was superior to the M-60 in many respects but the M-60 dominated. Our LMG guys preferred the M-60 in most instances but liked the quick change-ablity of the 63 configurations. But often this was not a big advantage. We all liked the idea of a heavier round of the M-60. I think that's what GIs also liked in the BAR.

[Gutkowski]

My other Grandfather was with the Marines 4th div in WWII he was a BAR Gunner , He was a gunner on a Halftrack troop transport and provided coverfire for the men entering and exiting off the halftrack .When he was not doing that he was at the 30 cal gun on the halftrack providing fire for it
My Grandfather was 6-3" 240lbs ,the US always took the largest man and put them on the BAR for obvious reasons .

[Cuts]

The BAR was originally intended for 'walking fire,' a weird idea from the Great War.
The wpn was held at the hip and rds discharged 'every time the left foot hits the ground.' The idea being to keep rds on the Hun's parapet until the lads could leap into the trench and sort them out with the bayonet.

So it was theoretically used in the assault, although the concept of an assult has thankfully changed since then.



Just had a worrying thought - Browning Automatic Rifle - "used in the assault"...

(Let's hope Tinwalt doesn't read this with his usual perspicacity, then add two and two to make three hundred and eighty-eleven thousand, gurgle hundred and schplurkity-whizz.)

[chase]

BAR's not used much in Europe , right?

I mean it was used more often in the Pacific, where blowing the s*** out of vegitation was a reasonable option.

[Cuts]

Originally Posted by chase

BAR's not used much in Europe , right?

I mean it was used more often in the Pacific, where blowing the s*** out of vegitation was a reasonable option.

Nope, wrong.

Did you think they only issued politically correct weapons in Europe ?

[IronFist]

The BAR was heavily used where ever you could find the American Military.

[HG]

The BAr was mostly hused as a surpressing the enemy. When the US ARMY iseud the BAR to the soldiers they only isseud a few but after they realised that it was very sucsesfull in killing attacking Japenese, because the Japenese tryed to get the BAR to fire so that they can kill the soldier fireing the BAr but the Army realised that and thus let the rifles fire first in the first wafe and they then fired at the second attack. The BAR was fired from the hip because of the recoil if you fired it from the shoulder. They normally sprayed the area to kill Japenese who were hiding in the forest.

The BAR was actualy a old gun comeing from the Great War as a trench machine-gun.

Henk

[Man of Stoat]

Originally Posted by HG

The BAr was mostly hused as a surpressing the enemy. When the US ARMY iseud the BAR to the soldiers they only isseud a few but after they realised that it was very sucsesfull in killing attacking Japenese, because the Japenese tryed to get the BAR to fire so that they can kill the soldier fireing the BAr but the Army realised that and thus let the rifles fire first in the first wafe and they then fired at the second attack. The BAR was fired from the hip because of the recoil if you fired it from the shoulder. They normally sprayed the area to kill Japenese who were hiding in select the forest.

The BAR was actualy a old gun comeing from the Great War as a trench machine-gun.

Henk

Right, where do we start?

The BAR was a standard issue weapon in the army from the end of the First World War, they didn't just issue "a few". It was the squad automatic weapon of the day, and each army squad had one. Marine squads had more, however.

You will, of course, be able to supply a reputable source for the "tactics" you described above? It doesn't exactly seem sensible to limit your available firepower in defence.

As for "firing from the hip because of the recoil", you might wish to know that the recoil of the BAR is less than the recoil of the M1903 Springfield and the Garand, due to its larger weight. This is simple physics, and to suggest that it was only ever fired from the hip is total nonsense. At the end of the First World War, "marching fire" was in vogue, and this required firing from the hip every time the left foot hit the ground, whilst advancing over open ground. This type of fire is reportedly ineffective and totally useless, and had been dropped by the Second World War. It was, however, for this (French) doctrine that the BAR was initially developed.

[HG]

Right, when the US whent to fight in the east they only issued a few in each sqaud but after they realised it was a very great weapon against the Japenese in the jungles they issued more to have more fire power in each squad. To fire a Bar from the shoulder in auto fire mode was not something a good idea and becaus the soldiers moved it was better to fire it from the hip.

The US Army used the tactic I told you of earlyer in the jungles because the Japs always wanted to get the machine-gun possition so that they can break through the defending US troops, but the Japs did not know that the BAR soldiers were mobile and not stationd like normally.

Springfield was also a great rifle and sniper rifle. What do you think?

Henk

[Man of Stoat]

As I said before, please provide some evidence of this "tactic".

They never issued more than "a few" in each squad.

Have you ever fired from the hip? It is not terribly accurate. And by that, I mean that it is not accurate at all.



Note the soldier in the centre of this photo:


Hatcher's notebook, page 109:

Originally Posted by The Daddy

It was the first weapon light enough to be fired from the shoulder and at the same time sufficiently heavy and ragged to permit a fairly long bursts of automatic fire... It was well adapted for the marching fire in vogue during the trench warfare of those days, as well as for full automatic fire from the prone position, using any rest that might be available for the muzzle of the gun... This gun can be fired full automatic from the shoulder, but it requires practice to do this without losing control of the gun. When this is attempted by someone who does not know the trick, the rapid succession of recoils, coming at the rate of 450 a minute, will quickly throw the firer off balance, and he will usually allow the muzzle to swing around to the right, or up into the air, or both... it is really the surprise effect more than anything else that is responsible, for if the firer will just lean heavily into the rifle as he starts firing, this motion can be controlled.

The only time when it is appropriate to fire such a weapon from the hip, is during the last phase of the assault. This is due to the weight of the weapon, and not to do with its recoil. In all other situations, aimed fire from the shoulder will always be more effective than wasting ammunition by spraying from the hip.

Now, the Springfield -- that has a really nasty recoil. Am I supposed to fire that from the hip too?

[Cuts]

Originally Posted by HG

Right, when the US whent to fight in the east they only issued a few in each sqaud but after they realised it was a very great weapon against the Japenese in the jungles they issued more to have more fire power in each squad. To fire a Bar from the shoulder in auto fire mode was not something a good idea and becaus the soldiers moved it was better to fire it from the hip.

The US Army used the tactic I told you of earlyer in the jungles because the Japs always wanted to get the machine-gun possition so that they can break through the defending US troops, but the Japs did not know that the BAR soldiers were mobile and not stationd like normally.

Springfield was also a great rifle and sniper rifle. What do you think?

Henk

Henk where have you found this information ?
Please post a link or the ISBN of your source so that I may expand my knowledge.

As soon as I have this gen I shall with full confidence be able to decry the proven facts described by many authorities in volumes presently assumed to be definitive works, and disregard the experience gained by myself and many other sldrs far better than I.



Here we see Henk's Ultimate Infantry Tactics - Positions Of Elementary Shooting, being put into use by some elite Special Forces troops.