Waffen SS

[Firefly]

"
The Waffen SS "concentration camp" guards/henchmen were from the Totenkopftverband(spelling oops). The personel from the totenkopft were, if combat ready, sent to the 3rd SS Panzer division. However, there were times where small numbers of ex-totenkopft guards would filter into other Waffen SS formations. While the rumor was rampant, it was not widely believed by non-totenkopft Waffen SS soldiers. These germans/northwest europeons didn't believe that their government would do such a thing, so they regarded rumors as false. Also, men that served as concentration guards were usually especially shameful of their deeds and would, for the most part, keep quiet to avoid getting into trouble. It's not prudent to boast that you've killed civilians.

On the western front/italian front, the tendancy for Waffen SS soldiers to commit war crimes is the same as the allied tendancy.

Man I dont know what age you are, but you cant be this niave.

You continually seem to be an apologist and making excuses for the SS. The tendancy for SS soldiers to commit warcrimes was not the same! They did it in Dunkirk in 1940, they did it to Canadians in Normandy, Americans during the Bulge. Not just in 1's or 2's during the battle, but as a deliberate act after the battle.

Please answer these 2 questions:

1. Would you have wanted Germany to win WW2?

2. Has the fact that you stated on another thread that your Grandfather was an SS Captain clouded your views about this organisation?

There was a really interesting BBC series here the other year, the Nazis, a warning from history. If you have any access to it I think you should watch it, perhaps even read the book?

[Walther]

My real maternal grandfather was a Waffen-SS senior corporal. He was involved in or at least witnessed attrocities and war crimes during the crushing of the Warsaw ghetto uprising in Spring 1943. He later got killed on the southern flank of the Kursk battle in July 1943.

I don't know yet which unit he was in. I hope it was not Dirlewanger's criminal bunch.

Jan

[Firefly]

My real maternal grandfather was a Waffen-SS senior corporal. He was involved in or at least witnessed attrocities and war crimes during the crushing of the Warsaw ghetto uprising in Spring 1943. He later got killed on the southern flank of the Kursk battle in July 1943.

I don't know yet which unit he was in. I hope it was not Dirlewanger's criminal bunch.

Jan

I appreciate an honest answer. Dirlewangers Bunch were involved in the second Warsaw uprising too and then went on to do the same in Czechoslovakia I believe.

[Dani]

http://www.ritterkreuztraeger-1939-4...nger-Oskar.htm (in German)


Oskar Dirlewanger

Also http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=763
on which I quote:
Area of operations
Poland (General Government) (1 Sep 1940 - 17 Feb 1942)
Belorussia (Anti-Partisan) (17 Feb 1942 - 5 Aug 1944)

Reference material on this unit
Hans-Peter Klausch - Anti-faschisten in SS Uniform: Schicksal und Widerstand der deutschen politischen KZ-Haeftlingen, Zuchthaus-und Wehrmachtsgefangenen in der SS-Sonderformation Dirlewanger

French L. MacLean - The Cruel Hunters: SS-Sonder-Kommando Dirlewanger Hitler's Most Notorious Anti-Partisan Unit

Rolf Michaelis - Das SS-Sonderkommando Dirlewanger: Ein Beispiel deutscher Besatzungspolitik in Weißrussland.
End quote.

I didn't found any reference for Czechoslovakia.

[Dani]

Sorry
My mistake!

Quoted from axishistory:
SS-Regiment Dirlewanger was formed in Aug 1944 when SS-Sonderkommando Dirlewanger was upgraded to a regiment.
It took part in fighting the Polish Home Army in Warsaw and was upgraded to SS-Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger Dec 1944.
Commanders
SS-Oberführer Dr. Oskar Dirlewanger (? Aug 1944 - ? Dec 1944)

Area of operations
Poland (Warsaw Uprising) (5 Aug 1944 - 15 Aug 1944)
Czechoslvakia (Slovakian Uprising) (16 Oct 1944 - 30 Oct 1944

[Hosenfield]

"
The Waffen SS "concentration camp" guards/henchmen were from the Totenkopftverband(spelling oops). The personel from the totenkopft were, if combat ready, sent to the 3rd SS Panzer division. However, there were times where small numbers of ex-totenkopft guards would filter into other Waffen SS formations. While the rumor was rampant, it was not widely believed by non-totenkopft Waffen SS soldiers. These germans/northwest europeons didn't believe that their government would do such a thing, so they regarded rumors as false. Also, men that served as concentration guards were usually especially shameful of their deeds and would, for the most part, keep quiet to avoid getting into trouble. It's not prudent to boast that you've killed civilians.

On the western front/italian front, the tendancy for Waffen SS soldiers to commit war crimes is the same as the allied tendancy.

Man I dont know what age you are, but you cant be this niave.

You continually seem to be an apologist and making excuses for the SS. The tendancy for SS soldiers to commit warcrimes was not the same! They did it in Dunkirk in 1940, they did it to Canadians in Normandy, Americans during the Bulge. Not just in 1's or 2's during the battle, but as a deliberate act after the battle.

Please answer these 2 questions:

1. Would you have wanted Germany to win WW2?

2. Has the fact that you stated on another thread that your Grandfather was an SS Captain clouded your views about this organisation?

There was a really interesting BBC series here the other year, the Nazis, a warning from history. If you have any access to it I think you should watch it, perhaps even read the book?

Dunkirk, canadians,bulge, those incidents involve less than 90 victims.

the atrocity commited at dunkirk was by 3rd SS totenkopft division. I already said this is a bad bunch.

The Canadians, and british during normandy commited warcrimes against german troops, also. They tied captured german officers in the front of their tanks and drove into battle... The candians accuse the SS of what , 3 murders!!?

Battle of the bulge, out of the hundreds of prisoners KG peiper took, these 90 someodd men were the only victims. This execution was taken out, unfortunately, for the sake of security once the threat of encirclement was realized.
It sounds bad, but on certain situations its simply too grave a threat to security to take prisoners.

IE., The 101st airborne commited massacres that have, conviently, been covered up. IE.Lt. Ronald Speirs killed 20 german prisoners in cold blood.

Allied troops were deliberately given orders by the higher ups to kill all surrendered german paratroops and waffen ss during the bulge.

Where's your proof that the Waffen SS commited much more warcrimes in the West??

Stop calling me an apologist. Victors write history. historical events can be emphasized no matter the significance for the sake of propoganda.

Secondly, stop watching BBC tv shows to learn history. Go read some books.

[Firefly]

Firstly. Get real. secondly, please answer my questions and thirdly. frankly your talking nonesense.

Your beginning to sound like a certain banned one right now. So its not a massacre then if its only 90?

At what point is it a massacre? 91.92?

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres.html

Oh yes and I do read books as well mate. Another condescending member enters the fray I see. The BBC just happens to do good factual history.

Also, all SS that were not drafted into the organisation were War criminals. Those drafted in and promoted, were also War criminals.

please answer the questions next time instead of slipping the issue.

BTW, I need proof that German soldiers were routinely tied to the front of tanks as this indeed is interesting news to me.

[Sturmtruppen]

Firstly. Get real. secondly, please answer my questions and thirdly. frankly your talking nonesense.

Your beginning to sound like a certain banned one right now. So its not a massacre then if its only 90?

At what point is it a massacre? 91.92?

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres.html

Oh yes and I do read books as well mate. Another condescending member enters the fray I see. The BBC just happens to do good factual history.

Also, all SS that were not drafted into the organisation were War criminals. Those drafted in and promoted, were also War criminals.

please answer the questions next time instead of slipping the issue.

BTW, I need proof that German soldiers were routinely tied to the front of tanks as this indeed is interesting news to me.

fyrefly,i don´t want to be against you,but i think he isn´t going to banned because he isn´t insulting anybody.
he has a granfather from the waffen ss and reads books (he said),and you search on google!,and watch the BBC!!!!.
If you hate the SS,you don´t need to don´t respect them.

btw,the waffen-ss are the best troops in the world! :wink:

[Firefly]

I never said he was Erwin. I only use Google and he reads books of course.

Who ever said I didnt read a book? Who said I only watched TV. Who said I wanted him banned, not me.


Aaargh............................................ .........................................

[Sturmtruppen]

I never said he was Erwin. I only use Google and he reads books of course.

Who ever said I didnt read a book? Who said I only watched TV. Who said I wanted him banned, not me.

really?:

Your beginning to sound like a certain banned one right now

you watched that from tv,i know you read books,but we´re talking about waffen-ss,you have to read books about waffen-ss for this.

[Firefly]

OK I will try another track then.

Name me 1 Jewish member of any Waffen SS Division. If you cant, why werent there any?

Im sure your grandfather may help you with the answer?

[Tubbyboy]

fyrefly,i don´t want to be against you,but i think he isn´t going to banned because he isn´t insulting anybody.
he has a granfather from the waffen ss and reads books (he said),and you search on google!,and watch the BBC!!!!.
If you hate the SS,you don´t need to don´t respect them.

btw,the waffen-ss are the best troops in the world! :wink:

Erwin, can I just point out that Firefly did not want him banned, he merely commented that he sounded a bit like Eisenmann...

I can see his point.

[Sturmtruppen]

OK I will try another track then.

Name me 1 Jewish member of any Waffen SS Division. If you cant, why werent there any?

Im sure your grandfather may help you with the answer?

my grandfather is died.

Erwin, can I just point out that Firefly did not want him banned, he merely commented that he sounded a bit like Eisenmann...

shit!,my error again.
so sorry firefly,thanks tubbyboy.

[Sturmtruppen]

OK I will try another track then.

Name me 1 Jewish member of any Waffen SS Division. If you cant, why werent there any?

Im sure your grandfather may help you with the answer?

easy,because the jews aren´t allowed to form part of the waffen-ss,because himmler don´t want them in the waffen ss.

[Firefly]

I never said he was Erwin. I only use Google and he reads books of course.

Who ever said I didnt read a book? Who said I only watched TV. Who said I wanted him banned, not me.

really?:

Your beginning to sound like a certain banned one right now

you watched that from tv,i know you read books,but we´re talking about waffen-ss,you have to read books about waffen-ss for this.

OK Erwin

Men of Steel - Michael Reynolds - ISBN 940.5413.

Comes to hand, in it are documented many of the atrocities carried out by LAH and HJ.

I will dig out some of my other books later and give you a full run down.