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Thread: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

  1. #1
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    Default Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    This pic is from the official Bundesarchiv and shows a Heer soldier in France waiting in ambush that appears to be armed with what looks like an old MP-18 machine-pistol. The soldier in the background is similarly armed. I didn't think there were two left in the Wehrmacht by 1944.
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    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    It doesn't look altogether dissimilar to a PPD-34 though, which the Wehrmacht did use captured examples of.
    I have neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent and the merely unfortunate - Curtis E LeMay

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    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    In fact, I'm pretty sure it isn't an MP-18, as the magazine feed on that is forward of the stock...
    I have neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent and the merely unfortunate - Curtis E LeMay

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    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    Ha! You're right it's probably not a MP-18. But it looks too long to be a PPD-34 though.

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    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    Italian Beretta MP 38/A submachine gun if I'm not mistaking. The Germans said "Grazie, Italia" in summer 1943 and called it Maschinenpistole 739 (i), a reliable but also a heavy weapon.

    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    That was sort of my next guess after reviewing photos. But what the hell was it doing in Normandy?

    *Meh, I guess it's not that far from Northern Italy though...
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 09-04-2009 at 04:44 PM. Reason: *add

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    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    *Meh, I guess it's not that far from Northern Italy though...
    From an American point of view it isn't, no.
    Concerning the original photo...I was wondering about the German soldier's helmet cover. It somewhat looks like the USMC pattern...and the soldier is wearing spurs! Now, that's incongruous.
    Last edited by flamethrowerguy; 09-04-2009 at 04:55 PM.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    Perhaps they were mounted infantry trained for internal security/occupation duties prior to the invasion. That might also explain the secondary armament...

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    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Perhaps they were mounted infantry trained for internal security/occupation duties prior to the invasion. That might also explain the secondary armament...
    Looks rather like bocage.

    Perhaps mounted troops were thought to be better suited to that terrain?

    Or it could just be a ceremonial spur that has nothing to do with riding horses?
    ..
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    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    Any idea what rank that guy is? The Binos and odd leather thing around his waist suggest he might be some sort of FOO rather than just plain infantry. Did the German officers have a thing about spurs?
    I have neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent and the merely unfortunate - Curtis E LeMay

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    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Perhaps they were mounted infantry trained for internal security/occupation duties prior to the invasion. That might also explain the secondary armament...
    Secondary armament? Officially maybe. From "Ordnance up front" by Roy Dunlap:
    "No one ever bothered with any other kind of submachine gun if he could get hold of a Beretta M38, and keep it. The New Zealand boys especially loved them. Even the Germans liked it, and they hated to admit anything was good except their own stuff."
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pdf27 View Post
    Any idea what rank that guy is? The Binos and odd leather thing around his waist suggest he might be some sort of FOO rather than just plain infantry. Did the German officers have a thing about spurs?
    The original caption only says "officer".
    German infantry regiments had a cavalry platoon as part of their headquarters company, maybe that's an explanation...
    Last edited by flamethrowerguy; 09-05-2009 at 01:10 PM.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

  13. #13

    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    That was sort of my next guess after reviewing photos. But what the hell was it doing in Normandy?

    *Meh, I guess it's not that far from Northern Italy though...
    Hi, an interesting photo you've posted, i am not surprised the germans would have seized weapons from italian army depos as well as the well known camouflage fabric...many call italian camo.
    Supplies were short at that time of the war...

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    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    I wonder if this might not be a Norman hedgerow/the bocage....

    Maybe it's northern Italy?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Incongruous Weapons and Equipment Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I wonder if this might not be a Norman hedgerow/the bocage....

    Maybe it's northern Italy?
    Impossible to tell, it is not a common hedgerow to be found in Italy at that time i guess, much better chance for it to be in France than in Italy.
    Also the camouflage on the helmet appears to be US, and that would match the location as being Normandy soon after the landing, as it is known Gi's would soon dismiss such camouflage being too similar to german's.
    This could also be "captured" material
    So in the end i am biased towards the photo being shot in Normandy..
    For what my guesses are worth

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