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Thread: Elsenborn find -- info wanted

  1. #1
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    Default Elsenborn find -- info wanted

    Hello,

    i found this one close to the Elsenborn Ridge. Can anyone tell me please what exactly it is. (I guess its an AT grenade but i really am not sure of this)


    greetz
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    Last edited by HonzaBelgium; 08-17-2009 at 11:52 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Elsenborn find -- info wanted

    Uhm, it looks pretty much like an AA/AT shell of about 50mm minus the detonator. In any case it was more than just careless to lift it, pal...
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Elsenborn find -- info wanted

    Furthermore, back in WW1 -when this particular region still belonged to Germany- Camp Elsenborn was a training area of the German Imperial Army...so there's a chance it could be something even worse than "just" an AA/AT shell.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Elsenborn find -- info wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by HonzaBelgium View Post
    Hello,

    i found this one close to the Elsenborn Ridge. Can anyone tell me please what exactly it is. (I guess its an AT grenade but i really am not sure of this)


    greetz
    Honza,

    Was the shell empty? Where the detonator would be, in the front, was there anything in it?

    WW1/2 ordanance is a dangerious thing to handle. There has been quite a few deaths, including some rather expert people, messing with them. But if the shell was empty, it would make a interesting collectors item.

    You didn't take it home, I hope?

    Could you find any markings? Either on the sides, driving band, or bottom?

    Deaf

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Elsenborn find -- info wanted

    Deaf Smith

    the shell wasnt empty. I couldnt find any markings because of the state it was in.

    I didn't even want to hold this one, that would be to dangerous indeed.

    greets

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Elsenborn find -- info wanted

    looks like a 57mm AT round green marking band hmm I'll look in my ordinace refence and get back to you on that perhaps, but honestly you souldnt mess with any ordinace, a friend of mine had a friend of his evaporate into a red cloud messing with a greande not far from there about 7 years ago also that part of Elsinborne is restricted to military personell isnt it? I was just there 2 months ago, I wouldnt mess with that stuff if I were you, unless that is you have a death wish..and not to mention the MP's and civilian police arent so amused when they have to pick up body parts of stupid amerature battlefield archeologists.... I sugest you be more carefull next time this time you got lucky..
    The material inside those become almost nitroglicerate after all the years of warming up and cooling down...doesn't take much to set one off

    once again your lucky you didnt set it off digging it up, plastic shovels are a smart sugjestion too and paint burushes for dirt removal made with hair not synthetic as static can set stuff off...

    I am the Thread killer!

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    Default Re: Elsenborn find -- info wanted

    The green looking band near the base of the piece is the bronze driving band, the rifling marks can be seen. I would not handle that at all, if it is HE it only takes one bump sometimes. The image is not very good, so its difficult to tell if it has a fuze,(HE)or a ballistic shield (APshot) on the ogive. If it is an AP shell, (explosive) there will be a base fuze, so if anything looks like its screwed in at the base, walk away quickly. It could be 50-57 mm. no way to tell from the image.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Elsenborn find -- info wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by HonzaBelgium View Post
    Hello,

    i found this one close to the Elsenborn Ridge. Can anyone tell me please what exactly it is. (I guess its an AT grenade but i really am not sure of this)


    greetz
    This bitch is a 57 MM UK loaded with some strange Blackpowder - it's not an AT but a AP shell and if you get that powder out (you better bury this shit back and a lot deeper) don't play with it cause in 94 I've found (Krinkelterwald 23 shots of them - unfired) I opened one for deactivation and I burned the powder - ahem ... mean I've wanted to burn it but it saw the flame of the ligther and wakkkk I looked up like Jull Brunner in less than a second ... (had to go to EM for burn) ... get away from this if you don't F-G know what you are dealing with damnit !

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Elsenborn find -- info wanted

    It's a 57-MM AP (HE) because an AT would have at least a Tracer if not a Base Detonating Fuze ! Look at the head of the shell and you will see the remaining part of the Fuze !

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Elsenborn find -- info wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by using View Post
    Uhm, it looks pretty much like an AA/AT shell of about 50mm minus the detonator.
    Artillery Rounds are basically differents !

    An AP shot (shell) has an Impact fuze (Base) and a Cap or even 2 and a Tracer (APBCC/T) - It's the same for an Hollow Charge US Round. AP round are mostly loaded with brisant TNT while AP shot are empty and designed to break on impact.

    An AA would be like an Explovise Shell (HE) but MUST have a Tracer with an Auto Destruction Fuse to avoid getting them back on the head when fired.

    An AP shell (like the one on this photo) has a Fuze mounted on the Top (like a PDM or PDF Fuze) and has a different profile because it's designed to explode on the ground or above and not "inside".
    This is definetly a 57-MM US or UK round and if I am not right just send it to me and I promise to eat this round.

    Should this be one UK round you can find this out (even if the fuze is brook) while looking at the remains of the Fuze - if UK it's a small Brass Fuze and if US it's a complete set Booster (brass) + (fuze)

    Anyway my advice is as follow bury this thing back and deeper because we are out of time about the study of the chain reaction between brass - iron - steel and Explosive Substances ! Crystallized TNT will send you in the collector's heaven in NO TIME - beside this caliber (57) has no value on the market.

    Ammunitions are made to kill not to be collected !

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