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Thread: Re-creating the Horten 229

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Re-creating the Horten 229

    In that Discovery/History channel show, they reported the Me-262 was set in a mock dogfight with the Horton jet and the Horton was clearly the winner. Also the Radar absorbant material may not have been advanced by todays standards , but it reduced radar detection from 20 minutes to 2 minutes travel time from the Radar site.

    Historically the intercept time during the BoB based on 20 minutes radar warning allowed 1/2 intercept time to altitude catching the bombers after they crossed the channel.

    Later in the war I gather this figure might have been reduced but clearly the bulk of the 20 minutes was needed to intercept. At 2 minutes radar warning and 20 minutes intercept time to altitude, the Horton jet bomber could penetrate 2-300km inland before the interceptors would arrived.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Re-creating the Horten 229

    Quote Originally Posted by ubc View Post
    In that Discovery/History channel show, they reported the Me-262 was set in a mock dogfight with the Horton jet and the Horton was clearly the winner. Also the Radar absorbant material may not have been advanced by todays standards , but it reduced radar detection from 20 minutes to 2 minutes travel time from the Radar site.

    Historically the intercept time during the BoB based on 20 minutes radar warning allowed 1/2 intercept time to altitude catching the bombers after they crossed the channel.

    Later in the war I gather this figure might have been reduced but clearly the bulk of the 20 minutes was needed to intercept. At 2 minutes radar warning and 20 minutes intercept time to altitude, the Horton jet bomber could penetrate 2-300km inland before the interceptors would arrived.
    You are correct, ubc. It was the result of this mock-dogfight that made Goering increase the priorities for resources that the Go 229 program was to receive, in both single seat and two seat versions. However, the condition of the German economy at the time, coupled with Allied bombing of the necessary component factories, meant the sought production was never going to happen.

    It would though, be most interesting to see a modern build of the Go 229 using the same materials of the time, with modern engines as was done with the Me.262 a few years ago. If a second modern replica was built using composites, and again powered by modern engines was built, the comparison would be thoroughly enlightening, once the data between the two modern replicas was compared, after a suitable flight programme.

    Kind Regards, Uyraell.

    "Honi-Soit Qui Mal'Y Pense." :
    "Ill unto he who ill of it thinks."
    Edward III, Rex Britania, AD1348.

    "Wenn Schon, denn schon."
    "Be It Done, Best be It Be Done Well."
    Known German adage.

    "Until you have looked into a veteran's eyes and actually seen it,
    you'll never fully understand."
    ^Uyraell^

    "Aligaes : Amore vel Ira." :
    "^Winged Ones^ : Love or Wrath."

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Re-creating the Horten 229

    one funny pic from my archive..dont know where i've found it, but it doesnt matter.

    Thanx to Uyraell that here is someone who put things in right way, if some 'diletants' whose dont know the full history and story of Horten HoIX/Go229 and other perfectly engineered paper projects of Horten's Brothers, tell some crappy lies about the design of Ho IX and about its chars.

    I fly often Horten IX /Go229 A1 and A2 in my IL2 1946 v4.09m with Ultrapack Mod v2.0n, a there is it precisely modelled- its flight and maneuvering chars.

    The Ho 9 is far better plane as Me262 in dogfight and maneuvers, ..what if the more reliable engines (planned HeS-011) were mounted in Ho 9 in place of the unreliable and short-life Jumo 004....

    At all im a great fan of Flying wings like Ho.IX and Ho.18 (XVIII.) A -that would be the best planes in the air if they were produced at least in hundreds.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by von_Kasbegi414; 03-20-2010 at 07:29 AM.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Re-creating the Horten 229

    http://ww2incolor.com/forum/attachme...3&d=1269085097

    The picture is silly. I'm not a huge fan of flying wings myself, but almost nothing was taken from it by the Allies or the United States specifically. In fact, on U.S. company (Northrop?) had their own flying wing fighter prior to WWII...

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Re-creating the Horten 229

    to Nickdfresh... yes Northrop had some own designs of the flying wing gliders and planes before WWII, but all of them suffered by some illnesses, which the Northrop couldnt solve where were the problems.
    In comparison with them the Horten Brothers constructed their flying wings in the same time but their designs were very good controllable, had no problems in flight, and taken with them many flights on the gliders meetings in 30's germany- and there they performed always a nice show.

    I will tell it very soft, but the Northrop was not so talented at least as much as the Horten Brothers, they had better, longer and deeper experiences with designing, construction and testing their flying wing gliders and later airplanes.

    Before Ho.IX, were many successful and very very good flyable Gliders, 8 types (and some sub-versions of them) were before the Ho9 was drawn + built and tested.

    Not many people know that the first protype of Ho 9, version V1- unpowered, taken more than 10 flights which all were succesful and shown the pros of the concept, and so - no changes in control elements and flaps were needed.


    Nickdfresh, read some technical facts about Hortens designs, Please read this site before you tell somthing incorrect or wrong: (and dont tell the crappy US 'urban' legends and misunderstanded and dis-interpreted facts cut out from the full context) ...its for all noobs and ground rats who dont know something more about the treu story of Horten projects (im flyer, i know what im saying).

    Maybe some of you may feel touched, but it is only the truth like it is, in its whole beauty. Truth can be sometimes very hard, very rough and cruel to be accepted and maybe too heavy to bear for some (psychically weaker) people.

    http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/H...urflugels.html


    Nurfluegel- means flying wing airplane or glider [from 'Nur Fluegel' - (airplane) only with wing(s) no fins]

    Verstanden doch!?
    Last edited by von_Kasbegi414; 03-20-2010 at 09:55 AM.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Re-creating the Horten 229

    Quote Originally Posted by von_Kasbegi414 View Post
    to Nickdfresh... yes Northrop had some own designs of the flying wing gliders and planes before WWII, but all of them suffered by some illnesses, which the Northrop couldnt solve where were the problems.
    In comparison with them the Horten Brothers constructed their flying wings in the same time but their designs were very good controllable, had no problems in flight, and taken with them many flights on the gliders meetings in 30's germany- and there they performed always a nice show.

    I will tell it very soft, but the Northrop was not so talented at least as much as the Horten Brothers, they had better, longer and deeper experiences with designing, construction and testing their flying wing gliders and later airplanes.

    Before Ho.IX, were many successful and very very good flyable Gliders, 8 types (and some sub-versions of them) were before the Ho9 was drawn + built and tested.

    Not many people know that the first protype of Ho 9, version V1- unpowered, taken more than 10 flights which all were succesful and shown the pros of the concept, and so - no changes in control elements and flaps were needed.


    Nickdfresh, read some technical facts about Hortens designs, Please read this site before you tell somthing incorrect or wrong: (and dont tell the crappy US 'urban' legends and misunderstanded and dis-interpreted facts cut out from the full context) ...its for all noobs and ground rats who dont know something more about the treu story of Horten projects (im flyer, i know what im saying).

    Maybe some of you may feel touched, but it is only the truth like it is, in its whole beauty. Truth can be sometimes very hard, very rough and cruel to be accepted and maybe too heavy to bear for some (psychically weaker) people.
    The "truth" can also be a bunch of crap people are making up about German "wonder weapons" on the internetz. But:

    1.) There was little really known about the Horten design. So no one can conclusively say anything about it, nor can flight controls of the highly computerized B-2 (which I hate BTW, I think it's an over-hyped, massively expensive turkey and white elephant whose mission is obsolete and whose contributions to recent wars can be duplicated by other aircraft such as the B-1 or the B-52 far more cheaply). But the bottom line is the B-2 has no more in common with the Horten (which was a fighter BTW, and not the "Amerika Bomber") design than it does the Northrop X216H.

    2.) it was barely tested, and had mixed results with many accidents and probably a higher rate of accident than most other prototype aircraft.

    3.) Fanbois run around the internet telling us about super-German wonder weapons that are often exaggerated, or at least based on a tantalizingly small body of evidence.

    http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/H...urflugels.html


    Nurfluegel- means flying wing airplane or glider [from 'Nur Fluegel' - (airplane) only with wing(s) no fins]

    Verstanden doch!?
    Well, if it's on the interweb, it MUST BE true!

  7. #22
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    Smile Re: Re-creating the Horten 229

    I recognised the commonalities between the Go229 Horten design and the B2 long before I ever became involved with computers, let alone the internet.

    I have always said openly that the B2 had more in common with the Go229 than any prior Northrop designs. One of the major differences being that very many Northrop designs incorporated vertical control surfaces, things which the Horten brothers designed the Go229 without.

    I'm no "wunderwaffe" fan boy, BUT: in the case of the B2 and Go229 the derivation is scathingly obvious, just as three decades earlier the derivation of the XF92/F102/F106 was plainly from the Lippisch DM1/P13.

    Kind Regards, Uyraell.

    "Honi-Soit Qui Mal'Y Pense." :
    "Ill unto he who ill of it thinks."
    Edward III, Rex Britania, AD1348.

    "Wenn Schon, denn schon."
    "Be It Done, Best be It Be Done Well."
    Known German adage.

    "Until you have looked into a veteran's eyes and actually seen it,
    you'll never fully understand."
    ^Uyraell^

    "Aligaes : Amore vel Ira." :
    "^Winged Ones^ : Love or Wrath."

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