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Thread: Kamikaze - Unbearable pain

  1. #1
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    Default Kamikaze - Unbearable pain

    I got just a snippet of a TV show tonight which, according to the TV guide which I've subsequently consulted, was entitled Wings of Defeat http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=89622063
    and was about Japanese kamikaze pilots.

    The brief part I saw started with adverse comments about kamikaze commanders never flying the kamikaze missions (what a surprise!) but moved on to a part which was sad beyond belief.

    The wife of a kamikaze pilot instructor - I think Lt Fuji - wrote to him saying that she knew he would be worried about her and his children. So she drowned herself and their two children in a river, to free him for his duty.

    I wasn't paying full attention to the show and still have a sense of disbelief about whether I misheard, so I tried to find something on the internet about it, but I can't.

    If I heard it correctly, that has to be one of the most distressing stories of WWII or any war, and an indictment of everything that is wrong with whipping people into believing that they must sacrifice themselves for a nation which, invariably, never repays the debt. And a terrible, terrible debt in that case.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Kamikaze - Unbearable pain

    I am shocked in disbelief. I thought Goebells wife killing her children was bad enough but now I hear about this stuff, it makes me wonder what went through the minds of people in ww2 era. My god!
    Wiki is ok. History Channel is ok.
    But WW2 Forum is the BEST!


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Kamikaze - Unbearable pain

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    I got just a snippet of a TV show tonight which, according to the TV guide which I've subsequently consulted, was entitled Wings of Defeat http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=89622063
    and was about Japanese kamikaze pilots.

    The brief part I saw started with adverse comments about kamikaze commanders never flying the kamikaze missions (what a surprise!) but moved on to a part which was sad beyond belief.

    The wife of a kamikaze pilot instructor - I think Lt Fuji - wrote to him saying that she knew he would be worried about her and his children. So she drowned herself and their two children in a river, to free him for his duty.

    I wasn't paying full attention to the show and still have a sense of disbelief about whether I misheard, so I tried to find something on the internet about it, but I can't.

    If I heard it correctly, that has to be one of the most distressing stories of WWII or any war, and an indictment of everything that is wrong with whipping people into believing that they must sacrifice themselves for a nation which, invariably, never repays the debt. And a terrible, terrible debt in that case.
    Actually, it was not uncommon.
    I have a book "I was a kamikaze" by Ryugi Nagatsuka.
    From what I read in there, it happened a few times that wives and or mothers died before the kamikaze pilot went on his mission.
    Similar occurrences are related in the book "Kaiten" which describes the operations of suicide submarine pilots.

    Either way, to western eyes saddening events, that are in oriental eyes understandable.

    Regards, Uyraell.

    "Honi-Soit Qui Mal'Y Pense." :
    "Ill unto he who ill of it thinks."
    Edward III, Rex Britania, AD1348.

    "Wenn Schon, denn schon."
    "Be It Done, Best be It Be Done Well."
    Known German adage.

    "Until you have looked into a veteran's eyes and actually seen it,
    you'll never fully understand."
    ^Uyraell^

    "Aligaes : Amore vel Ira." :
    "^Winged Ones^ : Love or Wrath."

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    Default Re: Kamikaze - Unbearable pain

    Either way, to western eyes saddening events, that are in oriental eyes understandable.
    Not so much. The kamikaze program in Japan was about winning the war, in their eyes, by forcing the Allies to accept what the Japanese leadership considered the necessary requirements for an honorable, negotiated peace. The kamikaze's were making the ultimate honorable sacrifice for their country, and their families were supporting them--in some cases, literally with their lives.

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    Default Re: Kamikaze - Unbearable pain

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    Not so much. The kamikaze program in Japan was about winning the war, in their eyes, by forcing the Allies to accept what the Japanese leadership considered the necessary requirements for an honorable, negotiated peace. The kamikaze's were making the ultimate honorable sacrifice for their country, and their families were supporting them--in some cases, literally with their lives.
    Nor do I disagree with what you have said.
    I am trained in Japanese ways of thought to a degree, and therefore do comprehend some things someone trained only in western thinking would not.

    However, western eyes do regard the losses of civilian lives as saddening, even if justified.

    Regards, Uyraell.
    Last edited by Uyraell; 03-29-2009 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Grammaitcal.

    "Honi-Soit Qui Mal'Y Pense." :
    "Ill unto he who ill of it thinks."
    Edward III, Rex Britania, AD1348.

    "Wenn Schon, denn schon."
    "Be It Done, Best be It Be Done Well."
    Known German adage.

    "Until you have looked into a veteran's eyes and actually seen it,
    you'll never fully understand."
    ^Uyraell^

    "Aligaes : Amore vel Ira." :
    "^Winged Ones^ : Love or Wrath."

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    Default Re: Kamikaze - Unbearable pain

    However, western eyes do regards the loses of civilian lives as saddening, even if justified.
    True, and I think every nation--in general--shares this belief. What is sad is the length to which nations will go in order to justify "collateral damage" during wartime.

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    Default Re: Kamikaze - Unbearable pain

    Quote Originally Posted by Egorka View Post
    Perhaps the most interesting scenes, apart from the smug bullshit about "Japan, defender of justice", in that film were the untitled scenes of civilians under air attack and the consequences, which seemed to be in China rather than Japan. Which is consistent with the contemptuous view of many Japanese and especially those in Japan's leadership towards the Chinese at the time.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Kamikaze - Unbearable pain

    The Japanese have a deep belief in honor..it goes back to the Samari..the belief that their was shame in losing..being captured was thought to be beyond contempt..

    "You must love soldiers in order to understand them..and understand them to lead them."
    Henri Turenne

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    Default Re: Kamikaze - Unbearable pain

    this is a story of Lt Saburo Dohi, a brave Ohka pilot on his last mission,
    arriving at his makeshift station, a dirty ruined old school. Located near Kanoya airfield southern of Kyushu.

    Upon arrival at his station, he instructed his 15 men to tidy up and re arrange the facilities, he also requested several additional items, tatami (traditional japanese bed) was in the list.

    On the following day, 12 april 1945, The task force 58, which Lt Dohi belongs to, launching its missions. on his way to the airplane, he informed one of the senior officer around on his order of 5 bed and 15 tatami which will be coming that day and asked, that the officer ensured the orders is coming and complete.

    After his plane took off, Dohi was asleep, he was awaken by the bomber crew when the target is within vicinity, with a simple smile he said " time sure pass very fast" he went to his rocket and launched to a warship, and died.

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    Default Re: Kamikaze - Unbearable pain

    Long time ago there was a general named of Marlborough (John Churchill to be exact.) I believe once he had one of his men ride to the French lines and say, "Men of France! Fire first!"

    That is the western's version of chivalry. Sporting, eh what? And remember how Gen. Tooey Spaatz refused to area bomb? Precision daylight and all that? How he considered area bombing terrorism? We westerns draw a line on our conduct. It takes a culture of fanaticism to force us to use the Bomb.

    To fight all out reguardless of losses is part of their culture. Suicide was to. To be dishonored was to be less than nothing. This goes way back to the shogun era. Whole clans might commit suicide if it was felt they had dishonored the Shogun.

    As repugnant as it is to us, it was not to them. And that convinced us they really would fight to the death of the last Japanese, and thus we would fight to the death of the last Japanese if need be.

    Deaf

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