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Thread: The Westland Whirlwind.

  1. #31
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    Default Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    My late uncle, Sqn/Ldr Thomas P Pugh, DFC was Commanding Officer of 263 Squadron in August 1941. I have a BBC recording from January 1942 of Uncle Tom giving an account of a sortie to a German airfield in coastal France. This describes his flight strafing and destroying a number of JU-88's on the ground. I have just found a website on 263 Squadron (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/laurieb...eff/index.html) with transcripts of the Squadron ORB and various other documents which includes a record of this very sortie, which was against Lannion on 26 August 1941.
    From the records I have identified that one of the Whirlwinds pictured in the Philip J R Moyes article, P7116 and that detailed in colour, was Uncle Tom’s “personal mount”. Uncle Tom is mentioned in the text as being credited with advocating the fitting of bomb racks to the Whirlwind, although he was posted to Headquarters, No 82 Group as Squadron Leader Tactics in February 1942, before the “Whirlibomber” came into being.
    Uncle Tom was later W/Cmdr with 182 Squadron operating Typhoons and was KIA on 2 August 1943 dive-bombing a destroyer in Dunkirk harbour. His wartime story along with that of my father S/Ldr Robert M Pugh AFC RAF (Ret'd) (who flew "Wimpeys" with Coastal Command), now 89, and their brother P/O John C Pugh who died in a Spitfire crash in 1940 was relayed in some detail in Dilip Sarkar’s book “Through Peril To The Stars”.
    I hope you find this of interest.
    Regards
    Anthony

  2. #32
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    Default Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antinchip View Post
    My late uncle, Sqn/Ldr Thomas P Pugh, DFC was Commanding Officer of 263 Squadron in August 1941. I have a BBC recording from January 1942 of Uncle Tom giving an account of a sortie to a German airfield in coastal France. This describes his flight strafing and destroying a number of JU-88's on the ground. I have just found a website on 263 Squadron (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/laurieb...eff/index.html) with transcripts of the Squadron ORB and various other documents which includes a record of this very sortie, which was against Lannion on 26 August 1941.
    From the records I have identified that one of the Whirlwinds pictured in the Philip J R Moyes article, P7116 and that detailed in colour, was Uncle Tom’s “personal mount”. Uncle Tom is mentioned in the text as being credited with advocating the fitting of bomb racks to the Whirlwind, although he was posted to Headquarters, No 82 Group as Squadron Leader Tactics in February 1942, before the “Whirlibomber” came into being.
    Uncle Tom was later W/Cmdr with 182 Squadron operating Typhoons and was KIA on 2 August 1943 dive-bombing a destroyer in Dunkirk harbour. His wartime story along with that of my father S/Ldr Robert M Pugh AFC RAF (Ret'd) (who flew "Wimpeys" with Coastal Command), now 89, and their brother P/O John C Pugh who died in a Spitfire crash in 1940 was relayed in some detail in Dilip Sarkar’s book “Through Peril To The Stars”.
    I hope you find this of interest.
    Regards
    Anthony
    Hello Anthony, Many Many Thanks to you Sir!!

    The information and links you provided are most welcome, and I am most grateful for them. My Profound Thanks to you, Anthony.

    To me, it is hugely interesting to know of folk who used various equipment or aircraft operationally, and in the case of the Whirlwind, the aircraft is such a relative rarity, that can only add to the value of the information you have so kindly shared.

    Your contribution to this thread has added a lot of value to it, Anthony.

    Kindest Regards, Uyraell.

    "Honi-Soit Qui Mal'Y Pense." :
    "Ill unto he who ill of it thinks."
    Edward III, Rex Britania, AD1348.

    "Wenn Schon, denn schon."
    "Be It Done, Best be It Be Done Well."
    Known German adage.

    "Until you have looked into a veteran's eyes and actually seen it,
    you'll never fully understand."
    ^Uyraell^

    "Aligaes : Amore vel Ira." :
    "^Winged Ones^ : Love or Wrath."

  3. #33
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    England
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    Default Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    One of my favourite fighters, and it could have been so much more with the right engines...






  4. #34
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    Smile Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    Clave, my Profound Thanks to you.
    I'm touched that you set your images on this thread, because your work is of such superlative quality.

    Many Many Thanks, Clave.

    Kindest and Warm Regards, Uyraell.

    "Honi-Soit Qui Mal'Y Pense." :
    "Ill unto he who ill of it thinks."
    Edward III, Rex Britania, AD1348.

    "Wenn Schon, denn schon."
    "Be It Done, Best be It Be Done Well."
    Known German adage.

    "Until you have looked into a veteran's eyes and actually seen it,
    you'll never fully understand."
    ^Uyraell^

    "Aligaes : Amore vel Ira." :
    "^Winged Ones^ : Love or Wrath."

  5. #35
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    England
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    Default Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    Any time!

  6. #36
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    Enfield, London UK
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    1

    Default Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    Thanks for all the information on this thread it has been extremely illuminating and though having done much research on this aircraft have still managed to learn a lot more. For those that don't know a documentary is being produced on the aircraft and the lost opportunities. Indeed i will direct the producer here in case there is anything that may be of interest. If anyone has information that they feel could be of use or would like direct contact with the producer please let me know at. screenworx@gmail.com all help would be gratefully received.

    Just to add a little more information when the aircraft was designed it was proposed for power by Merlins however the Air Ministry wanted an alternative in case the Merlin (and therefore Spitfire/Hurricane) proved problematical. Ironically the Peregrine was considered a safer bet as it was an update of a proven design and Westland reluctantly agreed, I don't know to what extent this altered the design at that point which obviously would have reflected on the later Mk2 update with Merlins that Westland proposed. This was unfortunately to be the design's downful as Rolls Royce was soon to decide not to do further Peregrine development, indeed it wanted to cancel it altogether. It is true to say that by the time the Mk2 was proposed even if conversion had proved reasonably easy (?) other designs were better placed to do its designated roles and general confidence in Westland's production process was fragile at best and the Lysander took precedence for its vital role. However had it been designed with Merlins in the first place which likely would have solved much of the development delay too then this would have been a most outstanding aircraft and likely the fastest piston engined aircraft of the war, a Hornet perhaps 4 years earlier. The fact by the end of the war fighters, piston or jet had taken up its general design philosophy surely says something.

    Anyway out of interest I have included illustrations of standard Whirlwind and how it may have looked with Merlins. You can see more of them at screenworx (dot) net if you wish.

    Stuart
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Spyinthesky; 06-11-2010 at 08:09 AM. Reason: To clarify

  7. #37
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    Default Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    Nice plates, thanks.

  8. #38
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    Default "Ghost of the Whirlwind"

    Jim Munro who is the producer of the proposed Whirlwind documentary "Ghost of the Whirlwind" has recently posted a "teaser" on you tube to attract interest, he is in the process of trying to obtain funding etc. to take things forward. I don't have enough posts to post a link here but I'm sure you will be able to find it on you tube easily enough.

    Enjoy!

    Cheers

    Anthony

  9. #39
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    Default Re: "Ghost of the Whirlwind"

    Many Thanks Anthony, I'm sure the clip will be viewed with interest.
    It is a good thing that, though belated, effort is being made to record the rare equipment in World War Two as well as the the more ubiquitious.

    Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.

    "Honi-Soit Qui Mal'Y Pense." :
    "Ill unto he who ill of it thinks."
    Edward III, Rex Britania, AD1348.

    "Wenn Schon, denn schon."
    "Be It Done, Best be It Be Done Well."
    Known German adage.

    "Until you have looked into a veteran's eyes and actually seen it,
    you'll never fully understand."
    ^Uyraell^

    "Aligaes : Amore vel Ira." :
    "^Winged Ones^ : Love or Wrath."

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ashburn, Virginia USA
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    4

    Default Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    Hi All,
    Regarding Whirlwind aircraft; I've been looking for tail markings for a specific Whirlwind with "Shark mouth" nose art from 263 Squadron.
    All assistance is greatly appreciated.
    I'm unable to post link or insert image of aircraft due to forum posting rules. Let me know if you're interested in viewing image and I can send you offline.
    Cheers,
    Alex

    http:
    //i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa88/modlbldralex/Whirlwind/Whirlwind.jpg

  11. #41
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    Default Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    Interesting aircraft, I got a little book
    Last edited by nikkoo; 11-21-2012 at 12:25 AM.

  12. #42
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    Ashburn, Virginia USA
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    Default Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    Quote Originally Posted by nikkoo View Post
    Interesting aircraft, I got a little book about
    Hi,
    Is there any reference to shark mouth aircraft in your book?
    I've been looking for tail markings for that aircraft.
    Cheers,
    Alex

  13. #43
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    Victoria, Australia.
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    Default Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    Were the Whirlwind squadrons pleased to be re-equipped with Typhoons? Most likely,yes..
    Fighter pilots usually prefer more power/speed/armament performance, & the Typhoon had more - with one engine..
    Apart from the P 38s doing well against obsolecent Oscars in the Pacific,[& didn`t do so well against the NWE Jagdwaffe].
    Most twins were generally seen as easy meat by the more agile single engined fighters.
    Even the late war high performance twins [DH Hornet,Do 335, F7 Tigercat,P82 Twin-Mustang],
    were out-performed as fighters, 1-on-1 by their single-engined contemporaries.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.A.W. View Post
    Were the Whirlwind squadrons pleased to be re-equipped with Typhoons? Most likely,yes..
    Fighter pilots usually prefer more power/speed/armament performance, & the Typhoon had more - with one engine..
    Apart from the P 38s doing well against obsolecent Oscars in the Pacific,[& didn`t do so well against the NWE Jagdwaffe].
    Most twins were generally seen as easy meat by the more agile single engined fighters.
    Even the late war high performance twins [DH Hornet,Do 335, F7 Tigercat,P82 Twin-Mustang],
    were out-performed as fighters, 1-on-1 by their single-engined contemporaries.
    The later versions of the P-38 such as the J and L models performed much better. There is some truth that the early war P-38's suffered serious losses, but at the same time they were often outnumbered as the Luftwaffe had not yet been beaten back. They also suffered from poor tactics that failed to make the best of the P-38's attributes and some pilots engaged in dogfights with the Me109 did not come off well. But many of the planes deficiencies were solved and the P-38L was probably on par with the P-51 effectiveness wise by the end of the war. But the high altitudes of European air war froze the pilots in the "Fork-tailed Devil" and the plane did not perform as well at low level. In the tropics, this wasn't a problem and the Lightening did well not just against Oscars, but against Zeros as well. I believe modifications pioneered by none other than Charles Lindbergh also increased the performance at low level by 1944. But by then the Mustang became dominant and most ETO P-38 units had been refitted with them...

  15. #45
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    Default Re: The Westland Whirlwind.

    Again, the pilots involved may reveal their views, those U.S. 8th A.F. pilots transitioning from the P38 to the P51 were generally happy to do so, & the German jagd-flyers felt themselves at an advantage if facing P38s.
    Also, Mosquito fighter-bombers needed a single engined escort, whereas - when the Whirlwind squadrons went to Typhoons, their familiar Spitfire escorts found it difficult to match the higher cruising speed of the [even bomb-laden] Typhoons..
    & when an escort proved necessary for the B29s, P 38s weren`t tasked for the job - P51s were, as being more effective, both in performance & cost-wise.

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