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Thread: Vulcan attack on Stanley

  1. #1
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    Default Vulcan attack on Stanley

    Gentelman , let's give it a try

    No more philosophy about this or that , I would like to go directly to war accions that have taken place during the conflict which have presented different accounts and that would be nice bring together and find out how it realy happen -

    Allow me state the following :

    Even though I've been there not all what I saw , may be what realy Happen , so we need to be open minded about this -
    I Give a lot of credit to Historians that have brought into consideration both sides accounts before writting the History ( Check and Balance )

    This is what I see on the Radar Screen :
    May 01,1982 at about 0445 Am , five or six airplanes detected between 60 and 70 NM due east of Stanly , heading west atack the area of the Airport -

    This is what Pilots at Key Publishing tell me :
    Only one Vulcan heading your way with countermeasures , and a Sea Harrier for protection -

    This is what British Pilots tell me at PPRUNE :
    Vulcan turns on Countemeasures at about 10 NM when someone engages it with 35 mm - No shots Fired -

    As you can see three different accounts of the same war action , who can provide more info on this - Thank you

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    Gentelman allow me to add some other info on this atack -

    On another British Forum , it cought my attention that it was stated that the atack plan for that first mission did not have considered the resence of a Roland Missil launcher , which at the moment of the atack was by Sapper Hill and not by the Airport - True or Not ?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    For the first Vulcan raid, the presence of the Roland was considered very unlikely. The intelligence the British had indicated it hadn't been shipped out and the book said you couldn't transport Roland in a C-130. The plan for the mission did not take Roland into account.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    Long Range

    Thank you Sir for the info -

    Regarding the account on that first atack , were I do see the Airplanes on the PPI of the Radar , any expanation as to were Countermeasures were turn on by Vulcan when it detected that a 35 mm system was trying to engage ( its range is only 16 Km ) , if that is the case how come I saw 5 or 6 when they were at about 70 NM away - Maybe Helos From Carrier Group ?

    Regards Enrique

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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    Quote Originally Posted by reydelcastillo View Post
    This is what I see on the Radar Screen :
    May 01,1982 at about 0445 Am , five or six airplanes detected between 60 and 70 NM due east of Stanly , heading west atack the area of the Airport
    That was the Vulcan who'd popped up to get a radar fix on the mountains West of Stanley. They flown a long way over water, relying on an Inertial Navigation System and needed to confirm their position.

    Quote Originally Posted by reydelcastillo View Post
    Only one Vulcan heading your way with countermeasures , and a Sea Harrier for protection -
    That's basically true but the two weren't in any sort of formation, the Sea Harrier was flown by Sharkey Ward to provide some measure of protection if Mirage III were deployed.

    Quote Originally Posted by reydelcastillo View Post
    This is what British Pilots tell me at PPRUNE :
    Vulcan turns on Countemeasures at about 10 NM when someone engages it with 35 mm - No shots Fired -
    On the run in, the Vulcan was locked up by the fire control radar of a 35 mm system, as far as I'm aware there weren't any shots fired at the Vulcan as the ECM used deception jamming. It was re-radiating the radar signal at a different phase to disguise the return and give a false range reading.

    BTW I should have mentioned, it was considered quite and achievement that the engineers managed to get a Roland on a C-130. Any idea of how it was done?

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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    Quote Originally Posted by reydelcastillo View Post
    if that is the case how come I saw 5 or 6 when they were at about 70 NM away
    I'm not sure why you saw 5 or 6 echoes. If I were to guess, I'd saw you merely saw the Vulcan but the Vulcan had a strange radar cross-section. From the front there were 5 strong returns

    a) H2S radar in the nose
    b) the compressor face of the four Olympus engines.

    So my guess, and I stress it is a guess, is that the radar may have interpreted the returns as 5 aircraft in close formation.

    I do know that it couldn't have been any helos as there were no British aircraft under the flight path of the approaching Vulcan in order to deconflict the airspace.
    Last edited by Lone Ranger; 02-06-2009 at 02:15 PM. Reason: typo

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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    Allow me to get with the Argie Forum and have someone post the available Photos on the Roland and its transportation to the Islands -

    The Roland was mounted on a trailler pulled by a truck , so it had to be loaded first the trailler on the C-130 , they had to take air out of the traillers tires so it would fit in the Cargo Bay - Then the Truck itself with air taken from the tires was loaded on a second C-130 - And both flew to the islands -

    First deployed by Sapper Hill , then it moved arround only were solid ground was available because it was not all terraine -

    Regards Enrique

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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    Long Range

    Valid explanation of why was it that I had 5 eccos on the screen -

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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    To Panzon and other Argies in the Forum : Could you please bring us Photos of the Roland while it was been loaded on to the C-130 for transport -

    Thank You Enrique

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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    I have had answeres about my doubts regarding the first atack carried out by Vulcan on May 01,1982 -

    If members of the Forum would like to make questions regarding this subject or other subject Please do so - Military War accions during the Conflict please only -

    If no questions are to be posted I do have one more :

    On May 01 in the afternoon while British ships were approaching south side of Stanley for Naval Bombardment , I was on top of Sapper Hill and saw what it look to me as the top of a Submarine - This was corroborated to me by Roland Operator and by a 35 mm Fire Director - Having made this same question on other Forums the only answere was : It would have been phorbited to a Sub Captain to go on surface just to watch the war -
    But there was something out there , it was not an Argie Sub -
    Could a Captain of a British Sub have gone into surface to watch the war ?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    It would have been utterly prohibited to have surfaced in daylight during the war. The only submarine to go close to the coast was the conventional sub HMS Onyx, who was used to move SAS and SBS troops in shallow waters but even she wouldn't have needed to surface to do that.

    Again if I were to guess, you saw a whale, and you wouldn't have been the only person in the war to mistake a whale for a sub.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    Thank You

    I'll keep it as a Whale until someone can prove contrary -

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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    Reading the Vulcan 607 book (got a personal connection here) there was at least one Soviet sub in the area, it was detected off the Argentine coastline before the British Task Force set sailed. At the time it was mistaken for a British sub despite none of them being anywhere near the area at the time, though this was only said to be a Soviet sub by a Soviet Admiral.

    As for the actual Vulcan attacks, I can try asking my uncle as he was on the Primary crew for Black Buck 1 only to abort shortly after take-off. On Black Buck 2 he managed to get over Stanley and he's part of the Vulcan to the Sky project.

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    Default Re: Vulcan attack on Stanley

    http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/mileston...es/P032452.jpg

    This would be your Uncle's Mission - This photo is looking South ( top of the photo ), the line of Bombs to the right is the mission - To unable the extension of the runway -

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