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Thread: Panzerabwehrzug

  1. #1
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    Default Panzerabwehrzug

    I am not good in german language so could anyone help me with translating and saying the exact meaning of Panzerabwehrzug ? Panzer wagon , tank or what ?
    I ask because a few days ago i read about the Emil Dur a man who fought in Hitlerjugend in Panzerabwehrzug/4. Kompanie/I. Batallion/SS-Panzergrenadierregiment 26 as gun commander and if someone could post more photos about him it will be appreciate , thanks in advance

    What i more know about him is
    Date of Birth:
    11. June 1920

    Decorations:
    Iron Cross II: 23. June 1944
    Iron Cross I: 24. June 1944
    Knight's Cross: 23. August 1944
    Honor Roll Clasp: 15. September 1944

    Date of Death:
    27. June 1944

    Source http://home.att.net/~SSPzHJ/EmilDurr.html
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Panzer = tank
    abwehr = defense
    zug = train

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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Panzer is more armour than tank - for instance the Pocket Battleships would be referred to as a Panzerschiff...
    I have neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent and the merely unfortunate - Curtis E LeMay

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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Quote Originally Posted by Procyon View Post
    Panzer = tank
    abwehr = defense
    zug = train
    If I'm allowed to correct the boss...
    In general linguistic usage "Zug" means train, right. In military parlance however it means "Platoon".
    So the soldier Ivaylo longs for info about was part of the "Anti tank Platoon" of his company.

    P.S. Will see for photos later.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Quote Originally Posted by flamethrowerguy View Post
    If I'm allowed to correct the boss...
    In general linguistic usage "Zug" means train, right. In military parlance however it means "Platoon".
    So the soldier Ivaylo longs for info about was part of the "Anti tank Platoon" of his company.

    P.S. Will see for photos later.
    LoL i didn't knew i was "soldier " Anyway thank for the help with the german language looking forward for the photos

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Yes, 'armour' would be more correct.

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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Alas, there are no more known photos of Emil Dürr but the one in the link. This should be because Dürr was "just" a Sergeant and the Knight's Cross was awarded to him posthumously.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Quote Originally Posted by pdf27 View Post
    Panzer is more armour than tank - for instance the Pocket Battleships would be referred to as a Panzerschiff...
    My German is limited, but the old German soldiers told me that the generic word for armor itself, is Panzar. The word used for describing armored fighting equipments (tanks, ships all of that,) is Panzer.German technical words are confusing to me, so some clarification by the German speakers among us might be helpful.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    "Panzer" means both tank and armour. And even a turtle's shell is called "Panzer". The adjective "armoured" means "gepanzert".

    Since it was not mentioned yet: the armoured train ("Panzerzug")

    panzerzug.jpg
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Quote Originally Posted by flamethrowerguy View Post
    Alas, there are no more known photos of Emil Dürr but the one in the link. This should be because Dürr was "just" a Sergeant and the Knight's Cross was awarded to him posthumously.
    Yep he was killed from flamethrower tank while he was trying to neutralize it , that's why the Knight Cross was posthumously awarded to him and the bravery he showed , the whole story can be read in the link i put . Thanks for the photo you put flamethrowerguy it put much more light to what is the meaning of the word , anyway i still don't get why that guy was fighting against the tank with panzerfaust while actually it's said he was serving on that panzerabwehrzug .... but anyway thanks

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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Yeah, FTG is right. A Panzerzug could be interpreted as both, an armoured train, or a train platoon.

    But Panzerabwehrzug would be an 'Anti-Tank Platoon'.
    I don't think there were any armoured trains designed specifically for the defense against tanks?

    And that he was killed by a flamethrower-tank while trying to take it out is another sign that he wasn't in an armoured train while doing so.

    And as for the problem with the many meanings of 'Panzer', generally speaking I would try to avoid ever translating it as 'tank', and would rather use the term Armo(u)r. That does its versatility a bit more justice.

    And if I'm not mistaken, don't the English-speaking militaries refer to their tanks as 'Heavy Armo(u)r', too?
    Last edited by Schuultz; 02-05-2009 at 09:24 AM.
    The fundamental problem of Democracy is that the majority of voters are idiots fueled by uninformed rage - and the Politicians do everything to cater to them.

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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Man, you just re-confused anybody.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Nah, you underestimate them. I'm positive I only confused you
    The fundamental problem of Democracy is that the majority of voters are idiots fueled by uninformed rage - and the Politicians do everything to cater to them.

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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Quote Originally Posted by Schuultz View Post
    Yeah, FTG is right. A Panzerzug could be interpreted as both, an armoured train, or a train platoon.

    But Panzerabwehrzug would be an 'Anti-Tank Platoon'.
    I don't think there were any armoured trains designed specifically for the defense against tanks?

    And that he was killed by a flamethrower-tank while trying to take it out is another sign that he wasn't in an armoured train while doing so.

    And as for the problem with the many meanings of 'Panzer', generally speaking I would try to avoid ever translating it as 'tank', and would rather use the term Armo(u)r. That does its versatility a bit more justice.

    And if I'm not mistaken, don't the English-speaking militaries refer to their tanks as 'Heavy Armo(u)r', too?
    Well my logic was wasn't that job of panzergrenadier troops with anti tank weapons not a job of train personal ...

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Panzerabwehrzug

    Of course it is. But according to your own post he was a member of the Panzergrenadierregiment 26. So he only did his job .

    He was a member of an Anti-Tank platoon within the Panzergrenadier-regiment.
    The fundamental problem of Democracy is that the majority of voters are idiots fueled by uninformed rage - and the Politicians do everything to cater to them.

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