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Thread: Valkyrie and Accuracy

  1. #1
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    Default Valkyrie and Accuracy

    Last night I was flipping channels and saw a few minutes of History Channel quazi-promo of Valkyrie. The segment I saw was touting what care the producers went to in regards to authenticity. In a companion movie clip, they showed Cruise as Col. von Stauffenberg walking around in trousers bearing a broad red strip on the seam.

    I'm not a uniform junkie, but wasn't the red stripe reserved for generals?

    Anyway, right or wrong, I thought somebody was sooner or later going to start a thread on this film and it's accuracy, so I thought, what the heck...why not get it over with?

    PS - Perhaps I should have posted this in the "Movie" section, but I decided to do it here because it will (I hope) focus on the actual *historical* accuracy of the German forces portrayed. If I erred, feel free to re-locate....
    Last edited by Ardee; 01-16-2009 at 03:11 PM. Reason: P.S. added
    "...we have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo (Walt Kelly)

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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardee View Post
    Last night I was flipping channels and saw a few minutes of History Channel quazi-promo of Valkyrie. The segment I saw was touting what care the producers went to in regards to authenticity. In a companion movie clip, they showed Cruise as Col. von Stauffenberg walking around in trousers bearing a broad red strip on the seam.

    I'm not a uniform junkie, but wasn't the red stripe reserved for generals?

    Anyway, right or wrong, I thought somebody was sooner or later going to start a thread on this film and it's accuracy, so I thought, what the heck...why not get it over with?

    PS - Perhaps I should have posted this in the "Movie" section, but I decided to do it here because it will (I hope) focus on the actual *historical* accuracy of the German forces portrayed. If I erred, feel free to re-locate....
    I'm pretty sure that the Red Stripes were for Officers, not only Generals, but I could be wrong...
    The fundamental problem of Democracy is that the majority of voters are idiots fueled by uninformed rage - and the Politicians do everything to cater to them.

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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    Ardee I think your right.. red stripe was reserved for Generals and Field Marshals.

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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    I dunno, could it be the Red Stripe was for position as well as rank?

    I think he was higher up than his status as a colonel would indicate. Wasn't he the adjutant of the Reserve Army?

    As far as vehicles and equipment, the short North Africa sequence looked pretty authentic with a large spread of half tracks, what looked to be a Panzer Mark IV (possibly a mocked up one though), some armored cars and Kübelwagens --other than the fact that the vehicles were grouped too closely together made obvious by what takes place in that scene-- it did look at least superficially authentic. But I guess they wanted to get as much proverbially "in the shot" as they could.

    One thing I did notice was that most, if not all, of the officers had Walther PPK sidearms. I would guess that the P-38 would have been more prevalent, but I'm far from up on that sort of thing...

    Also, the sequences of the Reserve Army battalion looked good and even authentic in a general sort of way. But I wonder if the uniforms seemed a bit dated with the tighter fitting early WWII designs, but since they were primarily garrison troops, this may well be correct. They also had the typical Mauser rifles and MP-40 submachine guns, but I would also think that at least a few of the other numerous weapon designs might have filtered down by the middle of 1944 and it may have looked a bit more hodgepodge with the situation beginning to deteriorate? Then again, I recently saw "Downfall" for the first time and a lot of the Heer/SS soldiers (almost a majority) carried the MP-44 in it, in fact maybe it was just a little more prevalent than I would think it actually was...

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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    The red stripes on the trousers are worn by generals and general staff members.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    The red stripes on the trousers are worn by generals and general staff members.
    Dont forget the cossacks hilfwillingers, they used red striped pants too

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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    So was Col. von Stauffenberg a memeber of the General staff in his role as Adj to the Resevre Army?

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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry_214 View Post
    So was Col. von Stauffenberg a memeber of the General staff in his role as Adj to the Resevre Army?
    Actually he was the chief of staff.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    So he could quite correctly wear the red stripe on his trousers.

    Thanks FTG

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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardee View Post
    Last night I was flipping channels and saw a few minutes of History Channel quazi-promo of Valkyrie. The segment I saw was touting what care the producers went to in regards to authenticity. In a companion movie clip, they showed Cruise as Col. von Stauffenberg walking around in trousers bearing a broad red strip on the seam.

    I'm not a uniform junkie, but wasn't the red stripe reserved for generals?

    Anyway, right or wrong, I thought somebody was sooner or later going to start a thread on this film and it's accuracy, so I thought, what the heck...why not get it over with?

    PS - Perhaps I should have posted this in the "Movie" section, but I decided to do it here because it will (I hope) focus on the actual *historical* accuracy of the German forces portrayed. If I erred, feel free to re-locate....
    Well i happened to go and see taht movie and i noticed the whole thing with all the officers carrying Walther PPKs or a weapon similar but i always read in books officers would carry lugers or P38s . if anyone could give me anything on this it would be appreciated.
    "Which would your men rather be, tired, or dead?"
    German General Erwin Rommel

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    This should indeed have been the Walther PP or PPK. It was quiet popular with staff officers or officers not to serve on the front line. Actually these pistols were purchased privately by the officers.
    Front officers usually used the Pistole 08 (or "Luger" as it's called internationally), less frequently the P38.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    Just for the sake of completeness. German General Staff officer's uniform (Lieutenant Colonel):

    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    Nothings ever complete

    The top junior officers, usually senior captains, were chosen to attend the General Staff school. Selection to attend and completion of that school was extremly prestigious & those officers went to the key staff jobs at corps and army level. They came to dominate the Generals ranks as well.

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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by flamethrowerguy View Post
    Just for the sake of completeness. German General Staff officer's uniform (Lieutenant Colonel):

    Well, there's the hat missing. So much for completion...

    The fundamental problem of Democracy is that the majority of voters are idiots fueled by uninformed rage - and the Politicians do everything to cater to them.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Valkyrie and Accuracy

    Interesting feedback! And thanks for the explanation, FTG. I haven't seen the movie yet. I am having a little trouble envisioning Tom Cruise playing the lead. Does it carry it off? Opps -- guessing I'm getting off my original theme of accuracy there.
    "...we have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo (Walt Kelly)

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