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Thread: Aussie viewpoint

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Aussie viewpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Schuultz View Post
    Wow.

    That was almost surreal, amazing cinematography. Still there were three things that seemed somewhat weird, though probably were done for a psychological/dramatic effect.

    1. The amount of Molotov cocktails thrown seemed somewhat overkill... roughly 10 Molotovs at the beginning, then roughly 50 people emptying their magazines in the church and then another 10-20 Molotovs? I doubt they would use that much of their scarce ammo for this small church...

    2. The drunk guy and the weird close up of the guy shaking his head - obviously for a dramatic effect - seemed somewhat out of place. But that might have just been intended.

    3. And why the heck is there a female SS officer with the fighting/occupying troops, sitting in a truck and eating lobster?
    I share those impressions, but I think they're cinematic devices rather than any attempt at a documentary-standard rendition of such an event.

    It has that crazy, surreal and seemingly impossible effect of the scenes in Apocalypse Now as the boat moves up the river to the scene with Marlon Brando in the cave, but unlike Apocalypse Now where I and most people I know just wondered what the hell those scenes were all about, in the Come and See film it encapsulates the callousness of Einsatzgruppen type operations.

    If we're going to be picky, the scene with the massed German troops firing at the building was pretty silly with ranks behind ranks behind ranks and all firing randomly over and potentially into each other while the machine gunner is firing at an elevated target when there is no sign of people escaping from the bell tower structure, probably because of the grenades thrown in earlier.

    Still, cinema like literature isn't there to report events accurately but to refine, compress and present them to tug at our senses and emotions rather than our cold intellects, which the film does very well.

    Which leads us to the SS shelia, which both slipped in nicely with the detachment of the senior officers and jarred with the violence outside her little world. Was she really present or not? Was this a dream-type sequence?

    All of which adds to the vast scope and depth of the film.

    If you go back to an earlier segment there is an improbable scene of displaced Russian villagers apparently hiding and certainly loudly keening for the dead in a forest, which makes no sense if they're really trying to hide from the Germans. But it picks you up in the sweep of the film and, like so many films, makes sense and evokes a strong response if the viewer suspends disbelief for the duration of the film.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Aussie viewpoint

    So was the scene depicted in the video an Einsatzgruppen planned massacre on the population of the village, or was it a reprisal act/random murder by general armed forces?

    I saw some SS guys, some SS guys in Tank uniform, a couple of none SS guys and a weird mammal.
    Last edited by Schuultz; 01-15-2009 at 08:06 AM.
    The fundamental problem of Democracy is that the majority of voters are idiots fueled by uninformed rage - and the Politicians do everything to cater to them.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Aussie viewpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by alephh View Post
    I feel that the WWII contributions by the Commonwealth nations (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc - except UK) are under-publicized.
    True, but that's probably a consequence of us being elements of the British Commonwealth at the time and just lumped in with British forces as far as any views of British operations by the British or Americans were concerned.

    Perhaps the biggest contribution the dominions made was to pilots and air crew in Britain, where Australian, Canadian and New Zealanders were prominent and where Canada ran the heart of the training scheme which supplied pilots and air crew to Britain.

    I doubt that there is an Allied contribution more overlooked then and now on the Allied side, and particularly by the major Western Allies America and Britain, than Brazil's. I suspect that most people nowadays think that Brazil emulated Argentina by maintaining its pro-Axis postion throughout the war when in fact it didn't.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Aussie viewpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Schuultz View Post
    I saw some SS guys, some SS guys in Tank uniform, a couple of none SS guys and a weird mammal.
    This would be the senior officer's beady eyed and timid little mammal later put under a helmet to shield it from the horror unfolding in front of it?

    Perhaps it was a metaphor for Himmler, who was a beady eyed and timid little mammal who was rather squeamish on the few occasions he went anywhere near what his minions were doing at his command?

    (With intellectualised bullshit like that, I should grow a goatee and learn to stroke it while appearing to think; slap a French beret on my scone; and become a film critic. )
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    This would be the senior officer's beady eyed and timid little mammal later put under a helmet to shield it from the horror unfolding in front of it?

    Perhaps it was a metaphor for Himmler, who was a beady eyed and timid little mammal who was rather squeamish on the few occasions he went anywhere near what his minions were doing at his command?

    (With intellectualised bullshit like that, I should grow a goatee and learn to stroke it while appearing to think; slap a French beret on my scone; and become a film critic. )
    Yeah, you definitely should

    But honestly, that metaphor works pretty well
    The fundamental problem of Democracy is that the majority of voters are idiots fueled by uninformed rage - and the Politicians do everything to cater to them.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Aussie viewpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Schuultz View Post
    But honestly, that metaphor works pretty well
    Lucky it wasn't a pussy cat.

    Because the metaphors I could come up with there transcend the Nazi regime and speak to all men.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Aussie viewpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Lucky it wasn't a pussy cat.

    Because the metaphors I could come up with there transcend the Nazi regime and speak to all men.
    Haha, you could say that it was a metaphor for Himmler being a pussy
    The fundamental problem of Democracy is that the majority of voters are idiots fueled by uninformed rage - and the Politicians do everything to cater to them.

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