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Thread: The Real Churchill

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    Default The Real Churchill



    On February 4th, President Bush eulogized the life of Winston Churchill. The president described Winston Churchill as a "great man" and quickly zeroed in on the mistress that both Bush and Churchill share: war. "He was a prisoner in the Boer War, a controversial strategist in the Great War. He was the rallying voice of the Second World War, and a prophet of the Cold War." Indeed, there doesn't seem to have been a war—or an opportunity for war—that Churchill wasn't associated with during his long career.

    Bush also recited Churchill's famous retort that "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it" adding that "history has been kind to Winston Churchill, as it usually is to those who help save the world," surely hoping that history will be kind to George W. Bush.

    Except this history is a myth. The truth about the real Churchill—the Churchill that few know—is that he was "a man of the state: of the welfare state and of the warfare state" in Professor Ralph Raico's turn-of-phrase. The truth about Winston Churchill is that he was a menace to liberty, and a disaster for Britain, for Europe, for the United States of America, and for Western Civilization itself.

    Not since fictional personages like Hercules and Zeus, have so many myths been attached to one man. As we will see, the Winston Churchill we're told about is not the Churchill known to honest history, but rather a fictional version of the man and his actions. And these words and actions have produced our mainstream "patriotic political myths" as John Denson calls them, which are merely the victor's wartime lies and propaganda scripted into the 'Official History.' The Churchill mythology is challenged by honest history, and the reality about Churchill involves hard, but necessary truths.
    The rest of the article is found by clicking the link:
    http://www.mises.org/story/1450

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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    Whenever I read articles by Adam Young I am struck by an image of a petulant child stamping her foot.
    "Don't call me stupid !" - Otto 'Galtieri' West.
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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuts View Post
    Whenever I read articles by Adam Young I am struck by an image of a petulant child stamping her foot.
    Why? Because you disagree with him?

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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    Written by someone who thinks the West should have supported Nazi Germany in its fight against the Soviet Union, and will never forgive Churchill for picking (in their view) the wrong enemy to fight.

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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    The quoted article is complete rubbish. It can't even get the basic facts right.
    This:
    |"The war was practically over, but for three days and nights, from February 13 to 15, 1945, British bombs pounded Dresden, killing as many as 135,000 people or more in three days."

    is but one of the more extreme examples of the authors inability to seperate fact from fiction.

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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by mavericck
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuts
    Whenever I read articles by Adam Young I am struck by an image of a petulant child stamping her foot
    Why? Because you disagree with him?
    Whether i agree or disagree with the views expressed in the articles is immaterial, that they are often poorly researched, show a lack of grasp of recorded fact and exhibit an arrogance that belies ability, all add toward that image.
    "Don't call me stupid !" - Otto 'Galtieri' West.
    __________________
    Stupidity should be a crime. Ignorance should be punished.
    Refusal to accept corroborated facts should result in a chainsaw enema.

    a luta continua, em adiante a vitória
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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    *insert post about Churchill here*


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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by mavericck View Post




    The rest of the article is found by clicking the link:
    http://www.mises.org/story/1450
    Hmmmmm,,,,
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    All it is, is yet another modern author releasing a 'lets debunk British History' book, like the many others who have tried to trample our history of the past 900 years. You see if they try to debunk say US history, these authors know that there books (Rightly) wouldn't sell.
    Patrick J. Buchanan, the author of Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War, is another loop who thinks its Britain's fault that WW2 happened. I believe that a book is about to be released blaming Britain for the Napoleonic War.
    Canadian Axe grinders are also releasing books stating that Britain won the First & second word war by using Commonwealth troops as a sort of human shield. This type of tosh doesn't only slur the Brave people of this nation, but also those of the commonwealth who served and or died alongside them.....!IT'S ALL B*****KS!

    Paul

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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    You're right, the British Empire can do no wrong and Churchill was second only to Jesus.....please....Almost every historian acknowledges that Churchill did in fact say these things mentioned in the article.

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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner-B View Post
    All it is, is yet another modern author releasing a 'lets debunk British History' book, like the many others who have tried to trample our history of the past 900 years. You see if they try to debunk say US history, these authors know that there books (Rightly) wouldn't sell.
    Patrick J. Buchanan, the author of Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War, is another loop who thinks its Britain's fault that WW2 happened. I believe that a book is about to be released blaming Britain for the Napoleonic War.
    Canadian Axe grinders are also releasing books stating that Britain won the First & second word war by using Commonwealth troops as a sort of human shield. This type of tosh doesn't only slur the Brave people of this nation, but also those of the commonwealth who served and or died alongside them.....!IT'S ALL B*****KS!

    Paul
    Perhaps, not quite.

    I can't comment on other Dominion troops in WWI, but my recollection (and I know I'm going to regret this because I can't think of specific sources) is that on the Western Front Australian troops were often kept at the front longer than others and were used as shock troops in assaults and kept in that role longer than usual, mainly towards the end of the war.

    They were, however, being used as assault troops in their own units rather than as 'a human shield', which implies pushing them out in front of craven UK troops, which was not the case as the UK and Australian troops usually had their own lines and lines of advance. So it’s bollocks to say that Australians were used to shield UK troops, even if Australians think that they bore a heavier share than UK troops in some sectors at some times. Even if they did, numerically and geographically the UK troops did most of the work, although Australians did some of the best work of Allied troops when, under Monash at le Hamel, they laid the groundwork for Amiens. http://www.firstaif.info/42/level2/battles/hamel.htm

    In WWII, so far as Australian troops are concerned, it is also bollocks. Although we had some avoidable and heavy losses in Greece, Crete and Malaya/Singapore thanks to Churchill’s incompetent commitment of land forces without, among other things, adequate air cover contrary to advice from his military advisers, in each instance UK troops endured the same campaigns, losses and results.

    It should also be noted that in both wars there was a sense of British community between the Dominions and the UK (perhaps rather a one way street so far as the UK was concerned in reciprocation, but that's a different issue) which meant that the Dominion men volunteered with great enthusiasm to serve the Crown, while the Dominion governments did all they could to support the common British effort.

    Modern re-interpretations in light of different conceptions of national and other identities make the basic mistake of ignoring the thoughts, motives and actions of people at the time in the world in which they lived.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Vantura View Post
    And Hitler killing 6 million jews is alright? While churchill just said a couple of hurtful things. Yes Churchill is very bad man

    Regards
    Pal, you're the only one to keep comparing Hitler and the Holocaust with Winston Churchill. Mavericck didn't mention this with a single syllable unless I am missing a most crucial point here.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by mavericck View Post
    You're right, the British Empire can do no wrong and Churchill was second only to Jesus.....please....Almost every historian acknowledges that Churchill did in fact say these things mentioned in the article.
    Churchill was also half pissed, or fully pissed (in the English sense of drunk, not the American sense of irritated, although he was somewhat irritated with that bad man, Mr Hitler), for most of the war, as well as usually having afternoon naps at the worst of times during the war.

    For a fat drunk who was alseep when it was all happening, don't you think he did rather well to unite and inspire his people, and to inspire people in America and elsewhere, to continue the fight against the seemingly unstoppable Nazi juggernaut when everyone else, including large slabs of the British political hierarchy, had given up?

    Who would have been better?
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by flamethrowerguy View Post
    Pal, you're the only one to keep comparing Hitler and the Holocaust with Winston Churchill. Mavericck didn't mention this with a single syllable unless I am missing a most crucial point here.
    You are missing the whole point of the articule.
    The reason the writer is so angry with Churchill was because he played a major part in bringing about the defeat of Nazi Germany. In the writers view a victorious Hitlers Germany in Eastern Europe would have been better than what did happen. The genocide of the Jews and Slav's would have been a price worth paying to defeat communism.

    The writer is a far-right nut-job

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    Default Re: The Real Churchill

    Quote Originally Posted by redcoat View Post
    You are missing the whole point of the articule.
    The reason the writer is so angry with Churchill was because he played a major part in bringing about the defeat of Nazi Germany. In the writers view a victorious Hitlers Germany in Eastern Europe would have been better than what did happen. The genocide of the Jews and Slav's would have been a price worth paying to defeat communism.

    The writer is a far-right nut-job
    I admit having read only the part of the article posted in this thread. Must have overlooked the link. So I blame it on this and the intricacies of the English language.
    Still I doubt the justified criticism and decent intentions of the member I addressed with my post.
    Last edited by flamethrowerguy; 12-20-2008 at 11:35 AM.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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