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Thread: Hitler, the Leftist.

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Hitler, the Leftist.

    Nick, there is a picture of Hitler serving on a Soviet in Bavaria. Can't find it right now.

    Private property in Nazi Germany was allowed to continue provided that it served the aims of the state, just as industry was. There is bucket loads of anticapitalist rhetoric in Nazi speaking and thinking, and they commonly referred to the "decadent capitalist democracies" or words to that effect.

    The American leftists that I am talking about were those that referred to themselves as "progressives".

    Nice ad hominem against Jonah Goldberg. His book is impeccably referenced, and he lets the sources speak for themselves.

    Wikipedia may not be as bad as it used to be, but some of the admin/moderators are activists in the area which they moderate.
    1884 electric cartridge. Look similar to anything?

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Hitler, the Leftist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Stoat View Post
    Nick, there is a picture of Hitler serving on a Soviet in Bavaria. Can't find it right now.

    Private property in Nazi Germany was allowed to continue provided that it served the aims of the state, just as industry was. There is bucket loads of anticapitalist rhetoric in Nazi speaking and thinking, and they commonly referred to the "decadent capitalist democracies" or words to that effect.
    Anti-capitalist fodder rhetoric during a depression coming out of a period of a valueless Deutchmark and policies are two different things. Yes, they demanded corporate adherence to the state. But true socialists would have nationalized industry, which they did not do by-and-large...

    As I said, German industry did just fine -and so did capitalist war-profiteers from Krupp to Topper...

    The American leftists that I am talking about were those that referred to themselves as "progressives".
    Again, just a broad brush...

    Nice ad hominem against Jonah Goldberg. His book is impeccably referenced, and he lets the sources speak for themselves.
    Um, some of the pronouncements he makes seem completely idiotic and himself like sort of a "fascist":

    http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/11/latimes-jonah/

    He's also a Neoconservative, one of the strains of thought that I see disastrous for America in leading us to an awful War in Iraq...

    On the contrary, it is the likes of Goldberg that employs the sophistry of Goebbels...it is in fact Goldberg that advocates fascist-lite ideals of McCarthyism, censorship, and interpretation of the US Constitution to fit his own hypocritically "activist" ideals...

    In fact, I would submit to you that it is American and UK Neoconservatives that are exposing revolutionary foreign interventionist ideals similar to Trotskyism, Marxist-Leninism, and Maoism...

    Because much of the Neo Con agenda is espoused by people that were in fact "60's radicals" who were themselves revolutionary leftists 40 years ago...

    Respected American conservative author, fmr. Nixon speechwriter, and pundit Pat Buchanan on "Neoconservatives." From : "Whose War?"

    The Neoconservatives

    Who are the neoconservatives? The first generation were ex-liberals, socialists, and Trotskyites, boat-people from the McGovern revolution who rafted over to the GOP at the end of conservatism’s long march to power with Ronald Reagan in 1980.

    A neoconservative, wrote Kevin Phillips back then, is more likely to be a magazine editor than a bricklayer. Today, he or she is more likely to be a resident scholar at a public policy institute such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) or one of its clones like the Center for Security Policy or the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA). As one wag writes, a neocon is more familiar with the inside of a think tank than an Abrams tank.

    Almost none came out of the business world or military, and few if any came out of the Goldwater campaign. The heroes they invoke are Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Harry Truman, Martin Luther King, and Democratic Senators Henry “Scoop” Jackson (Wash.) and Pat Moynihan (N.Y.).

    All are interventionists who regard Stakhanovite support of Israel as a defining characteristic of their breed. Among their luminaries are Jeane Kirkpatrick, Bill Bennett, Michael Novak, and James Q. Wilson.

    Their publications include the Weekly Standard, Commentary, the New Republic, National Review, and the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal. Though few in number, they wield disproportionate power through control of the conservative foundations and magazines, through their syndicated columns, and by attaching themselves to men of power.
    ...
    Wikipedia may not be as bad as it used to be, but some of the admin/moderators are activists in the area which they moderate.
    Maybe, but obvious redflags would be raised if they couldn't back up what they say and they know academics are ready to pounce and publicly attack them...

    P.S.: I might add that Christopher Hitchens is the UK (actually he's become an American citizen, but you can have him back ) counterpart to US Neo Cons who started out as a 60's lefty who supported the Algerians against the French, but then blasted Iraqi Sunni insurgents for using similar tactics against the Americans and Shiites....

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Hitler, the Leftist.

    Um, Goebbels was a propagandist twat that had little to do with economic matters
    but he had his views, and he was frustrated.

    As to free economy, Junkers was imprissoned and told he would remain so until he signed a contract transferring his business to the state soon after the nazi take over. Thyssen famously went to Switzerland muttering that there was no difference between nazi´s and communists when it came to attitudes to free enterprise (NOT that he was right at that, but he certainly was dissatisfied).

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Hitler, the Leftist.

    Nick, I believe this disagreement comes down to one thing: I think you have fallen into the trap of "true socialism = Marxism" (it's that 1930s era Soviet propaganda again...)

    It's not.
    1884 electric cartridge. Look similar to anything?

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Hitler, the Leftist.

    Well, being a very big fan of George Orwell, who was a democratic socialist who debunked any sort of myths regarding autocratic communism, I have my doubts...

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