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Thread: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    And I thought the Germans were the masters of supporting military ambition on unfounded optimism ;-)
    And for natural obstacles: September 1942, how is the surf at Oahu at that time of the year?

    By the way of large aircraft... in 1944 the chief of Nakajima had proposed for 400 of his Fugaku project aircraft, in a transport version, to unload 120000 troops at Seattle -Tacoma airport, to move overland to destroy the Boeing, Renton plant, and then fly home.

    Needless to say no Fugaku was built in any version, but Chikuhei Nakajima certainly had big plans for this aircraft.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    Quote Originally Posted by snebold View Post
    And I thought the Germans were the masters of supporting military ambition on unfounded optimism ;-)
    And for natural obstacles: September 1942, how is the surf at Oahu at that time of the year?

    By the way of large aircraft... in 1944 the chief of Nakajima had proposed for 400 of his Fugaku project aircraft, in a transport version, to unload 120000 troops at Seattle -Tacoma airport, to move overland to destroy the Boeing, Renton plant, and then fly home.

    Needless to say no Fugaku was built in any version, but Chikuhei Nakajima certainly had big plans for this aircraft.
    The Japanese military always had "big Plans" and those plans often got them into "big Trouble". The Japanese far out weighed the Germans in unsupported and unjustified military optimism. Often their plans were just nothing m ore than wishful thinking.

    What were the beaches like on Oahu during the winter? Well, Oahu is in the North Pacific where the prevailing swell is north westerly. So the Northern and western beaches on Oahu are almost always closed out by high surf to any landings. Beaching a loaded landing craft becomes problematical in anything above a two foot swell. At three feet it becomes more than problematical, and at four feet, you can forget it. The Eastern beaches aren't much better because of the orientation of the beaches and the way the swell rolls in. There are many good landing beaches on the western side anyway.

    The only decent landing beaches are at the southern end of Oahu in front of Honolulu and Waikiki. These beaches are fringed by a reef, so one has to time the tides correctly to allow boats to get over the reef. Even the south side can be closed out by heavy surf, and during the winter, there are only perhaps eight to ten possible landing days per month. Of course it's impossible to predict which days will allow landings each month unless you have a pretty good picture of the North Pacific weather cycles, since prohibitive surf might be generated by storms thousands of miles away.

    Besides high surf, and the reef, the problems of landing on the southern beaches of Oahu were complicated by the fact that Americans realized that the Southern beaches were the only possible ones which could accommodate a large scale landings, and this is where they cited most of the coastal defenses; from 16" to 12" batteries, 155 MM field artillery, 75 MM anti-boat guns, and heavy AA artillery, The beaches also were strewn with barb wire entanglements and MG positions. Fort Derussy, which still sits right in the middle of Waikiki beach, mounted 14" guns and 3" AA guns. It is now a museum where you can see the shell handling arrangements for the 14" guns. A pre-landing bombardment was not possible, unless the ships were willing to risk a duel with the shore batteries. The transports would be forced to anchor far out and use their landing barges to run ijn troops and supplies, slowing any assault landing to a crawl.

    An assault landing on Oahu in 1941-42 would have presented the most difficult military problems of any landing anywhere in the world at that time. The following link is for a surf height model which demonstrates why an assault landing on any of Oahu's beaches would be difficult.

    http://www.stormsurf.com/locals/hi.shtm

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard View Post
    Fort Derussy, which still sits right in the middle of Waikiki beach, mounted 14" guns and 3" AA guns. It is now a museum where you can see the shell handling arrangements for the 14" guns.
    Dang, I gotta go to Hawaii one day!
    By the way of large aircraft... in 1944 the chief of Nakajima had proposed for 400 of his Fugaku project aircraft, in a transport version, to unload 120000 troops at Seattle -Tacoma airport, to move overland to destroy the Boeing, Renton plant, and then fly home.
    And what were his plans to, uh, you know defend against fighters? Defend against lots and lots of fighters.

    Well you can't blame him. Hitler came up will all kinds of ideas to 'crush' the Allies. Italy though was smart enough to get out of the game early.

    Deaf

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deaf Smith View Post
    Dang, I gotta go to Hawaii one day!
    Pictures of me and my wife in front of the Fort Derussy Museum

    Hawaii08B.jpg Fort Derussy 02.jpg

    If you Google 'Fort Derussy", you can find links to nearby hotels. We stayed at the Sheraton which was less than a block away. I normally stay at the Ilikai, which is about a quarter mile away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deaf Smith View Post
    And what were his plans to, uh, you know defend against fighters? Defend against lots and lots of fighters.

    Well you can't blame him. Hitler came up will all kinds of ideas to 'crush' the Allies. Italy though was smart enough to get out of the game early.

    Deaf
    Man you got me on that one! I was trying to figure out how he was going to sneak in under the radar, avoid all the troops at Fort Lewis, and then take off again, while half the fighters in the Pacific Northwest were strafing the runways at the Seattle-Tacoma airfield.

    Since the planes were never built we don't have to worry about it, LOL!

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard View Post
    Pictures of me and my wife in front of the Fort Derussy Museum

    Your wife looks rather pleasant, but you seem somewhat rigid and hollow.



    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Your wife looks rather pleasant, but you seem somewhat rigid and hollow.
    Wow! You must be some sort of psychologist to discern all that from a picture. Actually, my wife probably appears pleasant to you because she spent her formative years in Oz.

    I'm a reformed ax murderer, prone to frequent relapses. I probably appear to be "rigid and hollow" because my ax was in the shop that morning.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    And what were his plans to, uh, you know defend against fighters? Defend against lots and lots of fighters.
    No idea.
    But there was a "plan" for Fugaku´s to shoot down US bombers by overflying their formations, with 96 downward firing 20mm Type 99 guns per Fuagku. Ridiculously good resluts were of course expected.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Your wife looks rather pleasant, but you seem somewhat rigid and hollow.



  9. #24
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    Your wife is lovely and you're a very dashing cannon...

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Your wife is lovely and you're a very dashing cannon...
    Say what??? LOL!

    I think you're looking at the wrong post again; try post # 19.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    Wizard,

    You and your wife look great. Must have been a nice and sunny day there.

    I'd move to Hawiii except for a) their gun control, and b) the price of houses!

    My wife and I have watched 'House Hunters' many times where prospective house buyers look at places in Hawaii. Million bucks for about like what we live in here in Texas!

    Deaf

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deaf Smith View Post
    Wizard,

    You and your wife look great. Must have been a nice and sunny day there.

    I'd move to Hawiii except for a) their gun control, and b) the price of houses!

    My wife and I have watched 'House Hunters' many times where prospective house buyers look at places in Hawaii. Million bucks for about like what we live in here in Texas!

    Deaf
    Thanks for the kind words.

    You have a point about gun control and there are places in Hawaii where it is a real good idea to go armed.

    There are affordable houses in Hawaii, they just don't sit on, or near, the beach, or have luxurious swimming pools and lanais. I love visiting Hawaii and used to have business responsibilities there, but I never seriously thought of moving there. The cost of living is pretty high; everything, especially food, is higher than on the mainland. It's revealing that when Hawaiians go on vacation, one of their most preferred vacation destinations is Las Vegas.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Japan's intentions towards Hawaii?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard View Post
    Say what??? LOL!

    I think you're looking at the wrong post again; try post # 19.
    I knew it! You're a Japanese tank! What a dastardly trick and who's that guy in front of you?

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