Japanese Revisionism: Latest episode

[Chevan]

Never the less, they took root in Russia. To say communism in Russia wasn't the same as it was in France or elsewhere is missing the point. The point is that it was there--the ideas were applied in that country in a standardized form. Whether it was the "theoretical communism of Marx" is not the issue. If you like, you can call it a "branch" of that thought.

I tell you again, that Order that Boslhevics have REALLY realized in Russian was FAR from Communism.
The communism was based on couple of ponits - World proletarian revolution( via Commintern supportion) and Working ruling state.
Both were pretty dumb in SOviet Russia- Workers were far from a power, wolrd proletarian revolution was denied at all (Instead USSR start to trade with West, Commintern have been dismissed).
The Communism was fully developed in Western Europe , Russia was ONLY the state in Europe where the authorities were such a weak in 1917 to let tocupture the power by Bolshevicks.
BTW they were the rather International Group( some of them even didn't speak russian) they has got the finantial suppor outside ( Germany, America and ets)

Again, moving into a religious argument. You're ignoring the fact that ethnic "supremist" thought was evident in a variety of cultures during and after the time of the Old Testament--and you're trying to limit it to a single religion/people.

I don't deny the violence and cruelty of cultures during and after the time of Old testament.
Nor is trying to limit the Racial propogand byt ONLY the single religion.It's sensless.
My point, if you enough attentively wrote my post, was NOT about mankind's religions/culture humanity at all.
I just notice, that We own an excellent Ancient DOCUMENTAL source Race hate propogand, Ethnical extremism and animal cruelty on pages of ..Old Testament.( i may show you more statements from this book, if you wish)
The othe matter is to argue - was it good or wrong, better or worse.
It doesn't mean that it was ONLY the religion source of that Evil, but , defenitelly it was ONE among first.
That make wrong arguments kinda "Russian/German/somebodyelse roots of Racism/Fascism".
Everything was WELL developed BEFOR us.

You also ignore the central thrust of the Bible--it is a record of God's relationship with humanity (which encompasses everything from judgement to grace and more). To compare Hitler's racism with God's judgement is like saying "one person was attacked with a knife and one person was attacked with a gun"--you're ignoring the context of the actions entirely. However, if we're going to go down this road, it is best done off forum as this is definitely getting into the meaning of "relationship with God".

The First "God's relationship with humanity" has come from Jesus Christ and his pupils , buddy.
This is the matter of New Testament.
If you don't know such a thing - how may you to argue?
I specially didn't touch the Christianity, but i done it.
So the whole Christianily is based on New Tastement- all of Great ideas of Mankind's love and Humanity, Compassion and Forgiveness, to all mans as God's sons has come from.... Jesus.
It's a well known fact.
The Old Tastement ignored such a high ideas- that's my point.

[Byron]

I tell you again, that Order that Boslhevics have REALLY realized in Russian was FAR from Communism.

Then we are simply debating the form that communism took in Russia. I'm not restricting communism to the "pure" definition you are. I don't have a problem with the limitation you are using. We're approaching the question from different angles.

It doesn't mean that it was ONLY the religion source of that Evil, but , defenitelly it was ONE among first.

I spoke of ancient cultures, not religions.

I just notice, that We own an excellent Ancient DOCUMENTAL source Race hate propogand, Ethnical extremism and animal cruelty on pages of ..Old Testament.( i may show you more statements from this book, if you wish)

I deny that the Old Testament is a source of "Race hate propogand(a)" at all. I am aware of the records of war and human and animal deaths in the OT. You're ignoring the context of these actions and the relational priority of God to humanity that is reflected throughout the Bible as a whole (both OT and NT).

The Old Tastement ignored such a high ideas- that's my point.

The Old Testament and New Testament are of the same cloth. Even Jesus stated He was not here to do away with the Law but to fulfill it. The Old Testament does not ignore the "high ideas" you list at all. But the ideas in question are centered around God's Will (and have no validity outside of God's Will) in both the Old and New Testaments.

[royal744]

Do people find it odd that the Japanese would suddenly become far more brutal than they had been before? What caused this? The idea that entire nations would suddenly turn evil seems far fetched but it seems that one could make a case that this is what happened in Germany and Japan. Do people have any theories as to what caused Germany and Japan to turn to the dark side?

It would be interesting to know if the axis leaders gave any signs of turning evil back during WWI that could have foreshadowed their later villainy.

One supposes that if one feels and truly believes that one is superior to others and that inferiors shouldn't have a place at the table, then it is not such a far step to dismissing them, jailing them, torturing them and finally murdering them. The Germans had their "Ubermenschen" and the Japanese had the "Yamato Nation". In either case, what they did to those who opposed them was utterly, completely despicable and unacceptable. The Germans appear to have come to terms with this. The Japanese have not. Watch out for the Japanese.

[Deaf Smith]

One supposes that if one feels and truly believes that one is superior to others and that inferiors shouldn't have a place at the table, then it is not such a far step to dismissing them, jailing them, torturing them and finally murdering them. The Germans had their "Ubermenschen" and the Japanese had the "Yamato Nation". In either case, what they did to those who opposed them was utterly, completely despicable and unacceptable. The Germans appear to have come to terms with this. The Japanese have not. Watch out for the Japanese.

True.

True for any nation that thinks that way. I'm really afraid the Muslims think that way, and far more than the Japanese ever did.

And as from the film, "Cross of Iron",

"Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again."

And I truly hope not. I really do. Cause weapons nowdays are far more fearsom than we ever had in WW2.

Deaf

[royal744]

"...where the absolute majority of inhabitans belongs to the single Ethnical group."

Actually, Chevan, the absolute majority in Israel may be Arab.

[royal744]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevan View Post

OK , its clear , all world's evil come from ..ducth who have bought all the bikes for their grass that they smoke all the time.Obviously they have started the ww2, make Commintern to order to red army to steal all the European bikes.And made Japane suckered into China.
The Japane is a victim of Commintern, that BTW has been established and worked in the Soviet Russia since 1917, alongside Zionists.
So the only question that we shall discuss , according General Toshio Tamogami concepts of history, is why did dastard Comminter order to American gov to start to bomb the Japane, that obviously was innocent , and has been provoked by the Commintern , placed in Russia
Mate, haven't you been listening to the Western press?

Russia (previously the USSR although most commentators couldn't tell the difference) is the greatest threat to world peace, as demonstrated by some of its military aggression where it fielded huge forces in conflicts such as the Vietnam War; Gulf War I; and Gulf War II, where Russia / the USSR went way beyond its borders while the West stayed home in its usual peaceful fashion."
__________________
The Comintern is coming over for cake and cookies on Friday, to be followed by a game of "Go Fish"; then a dip in the pool. After all, this Texas and a barbecue will round out the evening accompanied by the nasal strains of plaintiff Country 'n Western music and, of course, square dancing.

[royal744]

Let's sum up Japan's approach to warfare: 0) always start with a surprise attack against a hapless, unprepared enemy who is at peace; 1) never surrender even when all is lost; 2) always win because a Japanese is not allowed to lose; 3) if losing is inevitable, the only course remaining is to die fighting because to do otherwise would be to live with the SHAME which dishonors not only oneself, but also all of your relations. If your whole country is defeated, wait a decent interval before sneakily revising the history books. Oh, and issue comic books that cast the Yamato Race as the victim instead of the murdering, torturing rapist it is. The "comic books" night be called "real Japanese history books".

[Chevan]

Oh gentlemens, what was a sense to pick up the old thread, but though.

"...where the absolute majority of inhabitans belongs to the single Ethnical group."

Actually, Chevan, the absolute majority in Israel may be Arab.
.

yes sir , it may be ....soon
Not yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...of_Israel#Jews
82,8% of that countrly belongs to major ethnical group.Israel is one of the purest mono-Ethnical populated state of the world.And Official policy of state actively support that supeority.
But you right , actualy the birdh rate of arabes in Israel is sensitively higher then the jewish

[Chevan]

Let's sum up Japan's approach to warfare: 0) always start with a surprise attack against a hapless, unprepared enemy who is at peace; .

Yeah , and they 0-a) very pissed if somebody else make them surprise attack when they are hopeless itself.

[Rising Sun*]

Here's something I didn't know and which puts an entirely different perspective on the revisionism / education issues.

I'm reading Rosalind Hearder's "Keep the Men Alive: Australian POW Doctors in Japanese Captivity", Allen & Unwin, Sydney, 2009 where at pp. 121-2 she notes that in the first few years after 1945 Japanese textbooks clearly stated Japan's responsibility for the conflict and criticised the militarists for taking them to war. She says that this was a time of free discourse in government and academic circles with a national desire to face the realities of war and to begin the slow physical and psychological process of reconstruction of the nation.

This changed during the 1950s and was cemented when Nobusuke Kishi, a civilian war criminal who ran Manchukuo's economy before the war and who was pretty much Japan's equivalent to Albert Speer in Germany during the war, became Prime Minister from 1957 to 1960 and that he 'legitimised a great deal of wartime practices and marked the the beginning of the distortion of some of the wartime atrocities'. (Hearder cites a couple of references for her views, which I'll post if anyone wants them.)

This brings me back to MacArthur putting the war criminals and the bureacracy which supported them before and during the war back in charge in Japan.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it couldn't have taken too much foresight to realise that putting the foxes back in charge of the chicken coop and giving them power to write the history of the foxes' alleged attacks on the chicken coop wasn't going to produce a book unfavourable to the foxes.

[Deaf Smith]

Well you see the difference on how we handled Germany's defeat and crimes .vs. Japans.

And you see the results. Germany owned up to what they did, Japan didn't.

Lessons to learn for the NEXT world war:

1. Fight to win, AND WIN. Totally and unconditionally. Unconditional surrender was the right policy. We see how well ‘truces’ worked since then in Korea (we technically are still at war with North Korea) and Vietnam (they waited till we left and then ran them over.)

2. Root out all those involved with running the government/military of the defeated country and strip them off all power. 'De-Nazification' as it was called in Germany. No compromising at this.

3. If there are any war criminals. Try those who did atrocities. Nuremburg was the right answer.

4. Do whatever you can to help them rebuild and do not saddle them with an impossible debt that cannot be repaid without bankrupting the country (or else you sow the seeds for another war.)

Deaf

[kurt]

Let's face it his ideas and thoughts about Japan's involvement in WW 2 are shared by many other Japanese, as scary as that seems.
Just compare it to how Germany or Italy feels about their part in WW 2,and for the most part its a whole lot more realistic.
IMHO Japan got off way too easy on their war crimes and that has led to the what alot of them feel about their actions in WW 2.

In an Australian "World Socialist Web Site" I found a very interesting article about WWII in general and regarding the Pacific War there is a quite different point of view about the background of that war, I'm aware this is a leftist source and I don't share many of their opinions, but they talk about an Orange Plan devised in the US to wage war against Japan, at least for me, this is completely new:

Plans for a war against Japan were under active consideration in the US long before Pearl Harbour. In March 1939, the US Navy distributed a revision to its war plan called Basic War Plan ORANGE. Orange stood for Japan. According to the plan, war with ORANGE would be “precipitated without notice” and would be an offensive war of “long duration”. The aim of the war plan was “to impose the will of the United States upon ORANGE by destroying ORANGE Armed Forces and by disrupting ORANGE economic life, while protecting American interests at home and abroad.” [3]

In September 1940, the American naval attaché in Tokyo sent a report to Washington about the state of Japanese cities. “Hoses are old, worn and leaky,” he wrote, “water mains are shut off at night. Little pressure is available. Fire hydrants are few and far between. … Incendiary bombs sowed widely over an area of Japanese cities would result in the destruction of major portions of those cities.” [4] This advice was put into deadly effect in March 1945 with the firebombing of Tokyo. More than 100,000 people are estimated to have died in the ensuing firestorm; more than the immediate deaths resulting from the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/no...nbww-n18.shtml

[Rising Sun*]

but they talk about an Orange Plan devised in the US to wage war against Japan, at least for me, this is completely new

1. Everyone with modest knowledge of WWII knows about Orange and its variants, which have been discussed at length on this site.

2. Orange was a defensive response to an anticipated attack by Japan.

3. Japan attacked and started the war.

4. Your attempts at trolling are patent and tiresome.

[kurt]

I'm sorry for my modest knowledge of WWII, I'm trying to improve it, in doing so, I found this interesting information too:

Until 1939, the US government followed a pattern of conflicting policies regarding China and Japan. Committed on the one hand to an Open Door Policy toward China, the US conversely recognized in 1908 and again in 1917 that Japan had special rights and interest in eastern Asia because of its "territorial propinquity." The Lansing-Ishii Agreement of 1917, in fact, specifically recognized Japan's special position in Manchuria and on the Shantung Peninsula. Moreover, until 1941 the US consistently supplied Japan with the war materials necessary to undertake and sustain operations not only against China but against the Netherlands and France as well. At the same time, the United States maintained a naval rivalry with Japan which, because of various factors, had already begun to tilt in Japan's favor following the end of World War I

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...lan-orange.htm

Since I presume you are from Australia I was looking for an opinion about WSWS as a credible source. But it looks like if anything that disturb your opinion is regarded as "trolling".

[tankgeezer]

It may be Kurt that the "information" you post is interesting only to you, and has been gleaned from a stilted, agenda driven site. This worm boring from within stuff is getting old. You will find no useful idiots here.