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Thread: Afghanistan

  1. #46
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    Default Re: Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by herman2 View Post
    The Canadian Soldier was finishing a tense fire fight with Taliban and he saw a man and killed him by accident cause he was so wired.
    So you've got a solider who shoots anything that moves in a firefight. Please, lock him up and throw away the key. People like that are dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by herman2 View Post
    Oh, please, this stuff happens all the time in War, and unless the soldier pre-meditated the murder I hionetly don't see how murder charges can be brought upon a soldier for acting jittery or even stupid by shooting a civilian. I don't have pity for soldiers who deliberatly shoot civilians like you say but in war these accidents are acceptable. Like It or Lump it
    I've done it myself in training. Two of us had just overrun an enemy position and were searching a prisoner (I was covering), when he suddenly started attacking my oppo, so I "shot" him. Despite the fact that several weapons had been taken off him already during the search, he was unarmed at the time I shot him. I absolutely got my head ripped off for that one (rightly), and was told that had I done that in Iraq I would have been charged with murder.
    I have neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent and the merely unfortunate - Curtis E LeMay

  2. #47
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    Default Re: Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by pdf27 View Post
    So you've got a solider who shoots anything that moves in a firefight. Please, lock him up and throw away the key. People like that are dangerous.


    I've done it myself in training. Two of us had just overrun an enemy position and were searching a prisoner (I was covering), when he suddenly started attacking my oppo, so I "shot" him. Despite the fact that several weapons had been taken off him already during the search, he was unarmed at the time I shot him. I absolutely got my head ripped off for that one (rightly), and was told that had I done that in Iraq I would have been charged with murder.
    PDF, If I was hiding in a fox hole and you accidentally shot me, then I would forgive you, cause it would be an honour to be shot by a man of your calibre!
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  3. #48
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    Default Re: Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by pdf27 View Post
    So you've got a solider who shoots anything that moves in a firefight. Please, lock him up and throw away the key. People like that are dangerous.


    I've done it myself in training. Two of us had just overrun an enemy position and were searching a prisoner (I was covering), when he suddenly started attacking my oppo, so I "shot" him. Despite the fact that several weapons had been taken off him already during the search, he was unarmed at the time I shot him. I absolutely got my head ripped off for that one (rightly), and was told that had I done that in Iraq I would have been charged with murder.
    That should be manslaughter at best. And since the stress of such a situation in real life is immense a court would usually apply mitigating circumstances. You could of course always become a pawn sacrifice.
    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

  4. #49
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    Default Re: Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by pdf27 View Post
    I've done it myself in training. Two of us had just overrun an enemy position and were searching a prisoner (I was covering), when he suddenly started attacking my oppo, so I "shot" him. Despite the fact that several weapons had been taken off him already during the search, he was unarmed at the time I shot him. I absolutely got my head ripped off for that one (rightly), and was told that had I done that in Iraq I would have been charged with murder.
    A prisoner who attacks his captors in a battlefield situation might be regarded as having resumed his status as a combatant and therefore become liable to be shot.

    In a training exercise I was guarding disarmed prisoners, one of whom decided to be a hero and tried to wrest my M60 from me (which I think might have been an L2A2 getting into the spirit of things by pretending to be an M60). At one point I had the muzzle under his chin and even with a blank could have ruined his day, and the rest of his life.

    If that had been a real situation, I reckon I would have been justified in taking his head off, to avoid the risk of him getting my weapon and turning it on me and my comrades, and or facilitating the escape of the prisoners. If it had been a real situation, I would have shot him. Actually, in a real situation I probably would have shot him at the last moment before he could grapple with me. If I'm armed I'm not there to play tug of war and frig about with unarmed combat, which I might lose, with someone who is going to shoot me and my comrades if he gets the main section weapon off me. Doing anything but using my weapon to elmininate the threat seems to me to be a dereliction of my duty to preserve the main section weapon and to not expose my comrades to the risk of having it turned on them.

    I think, as I think Herman is arguing, allowance has to be made for the whole situation viewed against the context of warlike operations. After all, an awful lot of shooting in war would be murder in civilian terms, notably all attacks, ambushes and sniper shootings, but we don't apply civilian criminal law to such events or half the army would be locked up.

    Your situation was different and perhaps you could have buttstroked the prisoner if he wasn't presenting an immediate threat, but if he had a chance of taking your mate's weapon before you could get there I don't see shooting him as the wrong choice.

    Everything depends upon the circumstances, including the surrounding events. For example, if you're still under fire in a continuing battle and it's just you and your mate with the prisoner it's rather different to after the battle when battlefield pressures aren't upon you.

    While proper treatment of prisoners must be taught in training, I don't know that it's a great idea to inhibit effective responses by making soldiers worry about being charged with murder when confronted with split second decisions in real warlike operations. There's a world of difference between shooting an unarmed prisoner out of hand and shooting one who is stll fighting.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  5. #50
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    Default Re: Afghanistan

    This time a Civilian Woman is machine gunned by the Americans in Iraq and on life support. I don't think the Americans who did it should be charged with attempted murder. These things happen. In war accidents happen.
    Todays article from Toronto Sun Newspaper:
    BAGHDAD -- American soldiers shot and wounded a woman -- identified by an Iraqi TV station as one of its producers -- after she failed to heed warnings to stop near a Baghdad checkpoint recently targeted by suicide and car bombs, military officials said Saturday.

    The U.S. military said in a statement that the woman was "acting erratic" and didn't respond to warnings from Iraqi and American troops near the checkpoint in the central neighbourhood of Jadiriyah on Thursday.

    "Concerned by the danger she might present to the security forces and civilians, given her repeated failure to respond to warnings, soldiers fired two rounds, wounding the woman," the U.S. military said.

    The Biladi TV station, which is owned by former Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari, identified the woman as Hadeel Emad, 25.

    Station spokesman Muhsin Kadhum said Emad had just left the station and was crossing the street to get a taxi when she was shot.

    "She has hearing problems, and she didn't hear the warnings," Kadhum said. "She was wearing a long coat and carried nothing in her hands."

    A medical official at al-Yarmouk hospital said Emad was in critical condition.

    An Iraqi police officer said Emad was walking with her husband and ignored warnings from U.S. troops to stop.

    Also yesterday, an Iraqi official said two people were killed and another was wounded when a bomb they were concealing in their car exploded in the north of Iraq.
    Wiki is ok. History Channel is ok.
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  6. #51
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    Default Re: Afghanistan

    My Father Just Got back from Afghanistan he is a Master Warrant Officer in the RCHA. this was his 4th tour but he said it was hell.
    "Which would your men rather be, tired, or dead?"
    German General Erwin Rommel

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