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Thread: Montgomery

  1. #1
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    Thanks for your observations Nickdfresh.

    Does Montgomery deserve to be in a high pedestal together with the great commanders of WWII?
    Don’t think he can be compared with Eisenhower, Patton, Rommel, Guderian, McArthur, Zhukov, Nimitz, Donitz, etc.; although I don’t have that much knowledge of WWII I think he was just at the right place and at the worst time for Rommel. Together with de Gaulle they are way too overrated.
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 09-27-2008 at 07:15 PM. Reason: Demanding decent grammar

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    No offense, but I'm not sure as to what you are saying or asking...I kind of have an idea what you're getting at. But can we work on our diction and spelling when starting threads like this?

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    Quote Originally Posted by hi8ha View Post
    Hu guys:

    How great/good was Monty?

    I think he was not that great as the Britts want him to be, same thing with de Gaulle, he was even less of a leader/commander than Monty.
    Monty was a good leader,being in charge of an british unit,he should of done better though.

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    Quote Originally Posted by hi8ha View Post
    Thanks for your observations Nickdfresh.

    Does Montgomery deserve to be in a high pedestal together with the great commanders of WWII?
    Donít think he can be compared with Eisenhower, Patton, Rommel, Guderian, McArthur, Zhukov, Nimitz, Donitz, etc.; although I donít have that much knowledge of WWII I think he was just at the right place and at the worst time for Rommel. Together with de Gaulle they are way too overrated.
    This is comparing apples with oranges.

    How does one compare those land and sea commanders with all their different operations?

    Why attempt a comparison of Montgomery with MacArthur , let alone Nimitz and Doenitz and leave out Spaatz, Harris, Le May and even Goering, and countless others? What about the Japanese commanders, and others?

    WTF did de Gaulle do as an operational commander at the level of an army, corps or even divisional commander that puts him in the same class as any of the English speaking Allied or German commanders mentioned, let alone Zhukov?

    With the possible exception of Guderian as a theorist, none of the German land commanders mentioned were of unique significance in real military operations as distinct from in the popular mind nowadays, when viewed against the scale of German operations and campaigns during WWII. Rommel's activities in North Africa provided plenty of impressive propaganda footage for the Nazis, but North Africa was a sideshow compared with the Eastern Front and, for that matter, the U boat war under Doenitz as far as Germany's strategic aims and weaknesses were concerned.

    If the comment "I think he was just at the right place and at the worst time for Rommel" refers to Monty in North Africa, the only reason it was the worst time for Rommel was because Rommel was a gambler and gambled badly beyond his LOC capabilities, which shows he was either a bad general or less lucky than O'Connor who did rather better in similar circumstances of a calculated gamble against the Germans. O'Connor would run rings around de Gaulle and would have done a lot better than MacArthur in defending the Philippines, as would just about anybody else who didn't spend the first day of the war in the Philippines in a funk, MacArthur being the only commander among American, British, and Dutch forces who managed that.

    These sorts of comparisons are impossible and silly.

    Particularly when dismissing Monty as not at least as good as Patton when Patton was running an imaginary army in Britain while Monty was commanding in the field in Normandy.

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    Quote Originally Posted by aly j View Post
    Monty was a good leader,being in charge of an british unit,he should of done better though.
    How?

    In which campaign?

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    Quote Originally Posted by hi8ha View Post
    Hu guys:

    How great/good was Monty?
    Not the greatest commander of his time...but he was very good.
    His main drawback was his personality, there wasn't anybody he couldn't offend

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    Quote Originally Posted by redcoat View Post
    Not the greatest commander of his time...but he was very good.
    His main drawback was his personality, there wasn't anybody he couldn't offend
    I know he was too soft,They should of put Rising sun as commander
    He have the time of his life,hes a bullie and he suits being commander and hes dominate,and hes rude,and hes not scared of offending people.

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    How?

    In which campaign?
    Well he was good,he had too go against the germans with crapper equitment,
    and he did and all right job.
    And wast he in charge with an unit at one point in the desert and lost too rommel,when rommel was powerful at the time.

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    Quote Originally Posted by aly j View Post
    Well he was good,he had too go against the germans with crapper equitment,
    and he did and all right job.
    And wast he in charge with an unit at one point in the desert and lost too rommel,when rommel was powerful at the time.
    What about Europe?

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    I know I missed other commanders and was not my intention to forget the Japanese; but a great commander is a great commander regardless if he belonged to the air force, army or navy.
    In regards to Rommel in Africa, it is my understanding; he did not get the backup he really needed from Berlin, which did not help him in the North Africa Theater.
    If Rommel was just a gambler, why was he so respected even by his enemies? Guess they all swallowed the German propaganda.
    According to the comments in regards to Patton running an imaginary army in Britain, how do you explain it was difficult to supply Pattonís army because he was always ahead of were he was supposed to be. In a political move, the high command restrained Patton from entering Berlin before the Russians.

    GREAT COMMANDERS > montgomery, de gaulle

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    Quote Originally Posted by hi8ha View Post
    I know I missed other commanders and was not my intention to forget the Japanese; but a great commander is a great commander regardless if he belonged to the air force, army or navy.
    In regards to Rommel in Africa, it is my understanding; he did not get the backup he really needed from Berlin, which did not help him in the North Africa Theater.
    If Rommel was just a gambler, why was he so respected even by his enemies? Guess they all swallowed the German propaganda.
    According to the comments in regards to Patton running an imaginary army in Britain, how do you explain it was difficult to supply Pattonís army because he was always ahead of were he was supposed to be. In a political move, the high command restrained Patton from entering Berlin before the Russians.

    GREAT COMMANDERS > montgomery, de gaulle
    I know all this.......Rommel was respected on both sides,seen it on the history channel so many times,I actually know more about him than english commanders. You can learn alot about german army ww2,then any other army.

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    Quote Originally Posted by aly j View Post
    I know all this.......Rommel was respected on both sides,seen it on the history channel so many times,I actually know more about him than english commanders. You can learn alot about german army ww2,then any other army.
    Perhaps, but who won in North Africa?

    Not Rommel, but most people would be struggling to name one, and certainly two Allied commanders who defeated Rommel.

    There is a whole range of reasons for Rommel losing, and not all of them his fault.

    How about using this as an exercise to start to get a grip on thinking like a serious military historian?

    Think what some of the reasons for Rommel's failure might be.

    Starting with why the Germans went there in the first place.

    Then what problems they faced in being there for a while.

    And why they didn't stay there.

    Ignore the Allies and the battles etc in considering those aspects. Many battles are lost outside the battlefield.

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Perhaps, but who won in North Africa?

    Not Rommel, but most people would be struggling to name one, and certainly two Allied commanders who defeated Rommel.

    There is a whole range of reasons for Rommel losing, and not all of them his fault.

    How about using this as an exercise to start to get a grip on thinking like a serious military historian?

    Think what some of the reasons for Rommel's failure might be.

    Starting with why the Germans went there in the first place.

    Then what problems they faced in being there for a while.

    And why they didn't stay there.

    Ignore the Allies and the battles etc in considering those aspects. Many battles are lost outside the battlefield.
    I knew that rommel lost, but why did the germans go to south africa?

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    Quote Originally Posted by hi8ha View Post
    Thanks for your observations Nickdfresh.

    Does Montgomery deserve to be in a high pedestal together with the great commanders of WWII?
    Donít think he can be compared with Eisenhower, Patton, Rommel, Guderian, McArthur, Zhukov, Nimitz, Donitz, etc.; although I donít have that much knowledge of WWII I think he was just at the right place and at the worst time for Rommel. Together with de Gaulle they are way too overrated.
    Thank you for improving the quality of your posting. I hate to be the nanny-***** here, but I think we have the right to expect a certain quality level as we take ourselves way too seriously as a history site.

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    Default Re: Montgomery

    Quote Originally Posted by redcoat View Post
    Not the greatest commander of his time...but he was very good.
    His main drawback was his personality, there wasn't anybody he couldn't offend
    Or didn't seem to hate...

    A lot of American warbuffs sadly think that Monty was anti-American. The truth seems to be that Monty loved Americans, as long as he outranked them. Monty also dearly loved his Tommies; but he was Anglophobic regarding his superiors.

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