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Thread: Execution of civils in the East

  1. #1
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    Default Execution of civils in the East

    Hey guys i,m interesting what does this photo mean

    http://www.ww2incolor.com/dramatic/Russia-partisanen02
    The photo was taken in Ukraine.
    The posters under photo discuss it as and "execution of partisans".
    However i have a serious doubt of it.
    The hunged peoples loo like teenagers. Probably jewish.
    This was sort of Nazy lovely execution of "Jewish criminals", very tupical for captured Ukraine in 1941.
    What do you think about?

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    Is it authentic?


    "Although God cannot alter the past, Historians can"


    Samuel Butler


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    It's a well known photo and definitely authentic and yes, I know it under the caption of the execution of partisans.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    They might have just been the unlucky victim-bystanders of retaliation for an actual partisan attack...

    P.S. Wasn't there a Nazi-German execution ratio that varied by the equipment destroyed and the rank of the German personnel killed?
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 07-31-2008 at 09:58 AM. Reason: ps

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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    Hey guys i,m interesting what does this photo mean

    http://www.ww2incolor.com/dramatic/Russia-partisanen02
    The photo was taken in Ukraine.
    The posters under photo discuss it as and "execution of partisans".
    However i have a serious doubt of it.
    The hunged peoples loo like teenagers. Probably jewish.
    This was sort of Nazy lovely execution of "Jewish criminals", very tupical for captured Ukraine in 1941.
    What do you think about?
    These were Partizans. Women were involved too. It doens't mean, that they had to kill a German soldier before they were executed. When they stole food from the Germans or weapons, ammonution or they disabled German vehicles, they were executed too.

    What it means? Common..
    It means these 2 people cut the German Officer in Line while he was waiting to order a meal in McDonalds and he was already pissed off that day. The Germans hang people for less, you know.

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    www.winter-offensive.be

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    They might have just been the unlucky victim-bystanders of retaliation for an actual partisan attack...

    P.S. Wasn't there a Nazi-German execution ratio that varied by the equipment destroyed and the rank of the German personnel killed?
    Nick, as far as I know, it depended only on the number of killed soldiers - just the same with allied troops in occupied Germany. the quota was mostly 10:1.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    Quote Originally Posted by flamethrowerguy View Post
    just the same with allied troops in occupied Germany. the quota was mostly 10:1.
    Could you elaborate on the bold, please.

    In USSR the Germans had quota og 50:1, AFAIR.

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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    Quote Originally Posted by Egorka View Post
    Could you elaborate on the bold, please.

    In USSR the Germans had quota og 50:1, AFAIR.
    Source?

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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    Excuse me for my interferance, honorable gentlemen, but the most severe formally issued reprisals ratio during the WW2 against the civilian population was established by German OKW upon the basis of the 100 Serbian civilians for every killed German soldier, or 50 civilians for every wounded member of the German armed forces.

    This directive was issued on 16th of September, 1941, by Field-marshal Keitel personally, toward the suppression of the insurgent movement in occupied Serbia, with strict order for official dissemination of the document to all subordinate commanders. This order stated:

    "Measures taken up to now to counteract this general communist insurgent movement have proven themselves to be inadequate. The Führer now has ordered that severest means are to be employed in order to break down this movement in the shortest time possible. Only in this manner, which has always been applied successfully in the history of the extension of power of great peoples can quiet be restored.

    The following directives are to be applied:

    (a) Each incident of insurrection against the German Wehrmacht, regardless of individual circumstances, must be assumed to be of communist origin.

    (b) In order to stop these intrigues at their inception, severest measures are to be applied immediately at the first appearance, in order to demonstrate the authority of the occupying power, and in order to prevent further, progress. One must keep in mind that a human life frequently counts for naught in the affected countries and a deterring effect can only be achieved by unusual severity. In such a case the death penalty for 50 to 100 communists must in general be deemed appropriate as retaliation for the life of a German soldier. The manner of execution must increase the deterrent effect. The reverse procedure-to proceed at first with relatively easy punishment and to be satisfied with the threat of measures of increased severity as a deterrent does not correspond with these principles and is not to be applied."


    Aforementioned order was carried out by Wehrmacht General Franz Friedrich Böhme (oh yes, honorable ladies and gentlemen: the SS was completely innocent in this case!) on 21st October, 1941, in retaliation action at Kragujevac, when approximately 5000 Serbian civilians were executed, amongst them more than 300 pupils taken directly from the high school, along with 18 teachers.

    The executions were performed by troops of the 1st Battalion of the 724th Infantry Regiment commanded by Major Paul Koenig. In his report he stated that: "For every dead German soldier, 100 residents have been executed, and for every wounded German soldier, 50 residents have been executed - before all others, Communists, bandits, and their assistants were targeted, all totaling 2,300."

    On October 29, envoy Felix Benzler - representative of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs – sent another report to his ministry, noting that 2,300 Serbian civilians had been executed in Kragujevac: "In the past week there have been executions of a large number of Serbs in Kragujevac, as reprisals for the killing of members of the Wehrmacht in the proportion of 100 Serbs for one German."

    General Franz Böhme, plenipotentiary commanding general in Serbia, personally informed his superior, field-marshal List as well: "Execution by shooting of about 2,000 Communists and Jews in reprisal for 22 murdered of the Second Battalion of the 421st Army Signal Communication Regiment is in progress."

    This distressing occurrence represents one of the most horrific war crimes during the World War II, and it was recognized as such by United Nations War Crimes Commission.

    Complete legal evaluation of the aforementioned case is available here:

    http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/List1.htm

    And yes – I think that I will be able to find dependable information about that previously presented dramatic photo. As far as I remember, that picture was only one in a string of horrific snapshots illustrating "pacification" of the occupied regions in the ex-USSR. Just give me a couple of days…
    Ire Fortiter Quo Nemo Ante Iit!

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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    Thanks for the information. Also German soldiers who left behind (auto needs new part etc) had a "Life-Insurance".

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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    Quote Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
    Excuse me for my interferance, honorable gentlemen, but the most severe formally issued reprisals ratio during the WW2 against the civilian population was established by German OKW upon the basis of the 100 Serbian civilians for every killed German soldier, or 50 civilians for every wounded member of the German armed forces.

    This directive was issued on 16th of September, 1941, by Field-marshal Keitel personally, toward the suppression of the insurgent movement in occupied Serbia, with strict order for official dissemination of the document to all subordinate commanders. This order stated:

    "Measures taken up to now to counteract this general communist insurgent movement have proven themselves to be inadequate. The Führer now has ordered that severest means are to be employed in order to break down this movement in the shortest time possible. Only in this manner, which has always been applied successfully in the history of the extension of power of great peoples can quiet be restored.

    The following directives are to be applied:

    (a) Each incident of insurrection against the German Wehrmacht, regardless of individual circumstances, must be assumed to be of communist origin.

    (b) In order to stop these intrigues at their inception, severest measures are to be applied immediately at the first appearance, in order to demonstrate the authority of the occupying power, and in order to prevent further, progress. One must keep in mind that a human life frequently counts for naught in the affected countries and a deterring effect can only be achieved by unusual severity. In such a case the death penalty for 50 to 100 communists must in general be deemed appropriate as retaliation for the life of a German soldier. The manner of execution must increase the deterrent effect. The reverse procedure-to proceed at first with relatively easy punishment and to be satisfied with the threat of measures of increased severity as a deterrent does not correspond with these principles and is not to be applied."


    Aforementioned order was carried out by Wehrmacht General Franz Friedrich Böhme (oh yes, honorable ladies and gentlemen: the SS was completely innocent in this case!) on 21st October, 1941, in retaliation action at Kragujevac, when approximately 5000 Serbian civilians were executed, amongst them more than 300 pupils taken directly from the high school, along with 18 teachers.

    The executions were performed by troops of the 1st Battalion of the 724th Infantry Regiment commanded by Major Paul Koenig. In his report he stated that: "For every dead German soldier, 100 residents have been executed, and for every wounded German soldier, 50 residents have been executed - before all others, Communists, bandits, and their assistants were targeted, all totaling 2,300."

    On October 29, envoy Felix Benzler - representative of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs – sent another report to his ministry, noting that 2,300 Serbian civilians had been executed in Kragujevac: "In the past week there have been executions of a large number of Serbs in Kragujevac, as reprisals for the killing of members of the Wehrmacht in the proportion of 100 Serbs for one German."

    General Franz Böhme, plenipotentiary commanding general in Serbia, personally informed his superior, field-marshal List as well: "Execution by shooting of about 2,000 Communists and Jews in reprisal for 22 murdered of the Second Battalion of the 421st Army Signal Communication Regiment is in progress."

    This distressing occurrence represents one of the most horrific war crimes during the World War II, and it was recognized as such by United Nations War Crimes Commission.

    Complete legal evaluation of the aforementioned case is available here:

    http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/List1.htm

    And yes – I think that I will be able to find dependable information about that previously presented dramatic photo. As far as I remember, that picture was only one in a string of horrific snapshots illustrating "pacification" of the occupied regions in the ex-USSR. Just give me a couple of days…
    A book of mine (Das Ehrenbuch des deutschen Soldaten by Walther Dahl) says the determined ratio in Leutkirch/Saulgau (Southern Germany) was even 200:1. Unfortunately the book doesn't say which of the allied parties put this ratio up.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlaams-Legioen View Post
    These were Partizans. Women were involved too. It doens't mean, that they had to kill a German soldier before they were executed. When they stole food from the Germans or weapons, ammonution or they disabled German vehicles, they were executed too.
    I know the woman were partisans too.
    But i was asking about THAT two peoples, who looks like teenagers rather then pertisans.
    Do you know the TRUE story of them?
    Or do you simply repeat the coomon phrases?

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    Quote Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
    The following directives are to be applied:

    (a) Each incident of insurrection against the German Wehrmacht, regardless of individual circumstances, must be assumed to be of communist origin.

    (b) In order to stop these intrigues at their inception, severest measures are to be applied immediately at the first appearance, in order to demonstrate the authority of the occupying power, and in order to prevent further, progress. One must keep in mind that a human life frequently counts for naught in the affected countries and a deterring effect can only be achieved by unusual severity. In such a case the death penalty for 50 to 100 communists must in general be deemed appropriate as retaliation for the life of a German soldier. The manner of execution must increase the deterrent effect. The reverse procedure-to proceed at first with relatively easy punishment and to be satisfied with the threat of measures of increased severity as a deterrent does not correspond with these principles and is not to be applied."
    Thank you very much my friend.
    I knew this order was existed, but can't find it in english net.
    Don't need to remind us that the executed "communist" were the simple local civils hostages: peasants and woman from neighbourd villages.
    And yes – I think that I will be able to find dependable information about that previously presented dramatic photo. As far as I remember, that picture was only one in a string of horrific snapshots illustrating "pacification" of the occupied regions in the ex-USSR. Just give me a couple of days…
    I will wait resault of you investigation with great impatience dear sir.
    I know you migh find the unique, amazing information almost about any field in your Library

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    I found two more photos of this "session" in one of my books (Der Angriff auf Russland/The attack on Russia by Nicholas Bethell). It says the incident took place not in Ukraine but in Belorussia. The board around the womans neck says, both in german and russian: "We are partisans and shot at german soldiers."

    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

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    Default Re: Execution of civils on the East

    She is 17yr old Jewess Masha Brushkina, also executed are 16 year old Volodia Shcherbatsevich (his mother was hung elsewhere in Minsk on the same day according to some sources) and First World War veteran, Kiril Trus. They were executed 26th October 1941 in Minsk. Her crime was as a nurse at the hospital in the Polytechnic Institute she helped wounded Red Army soldiers escape by smuggling into the hospital civilian clothing and false identity papers. Betrayed by someone in the hospital she was arrested and tortured but is said to have not revealed her contacts. I don't know what the others crimes were. The prisoners were neither hooded nor blindfolded, and they were given no drop, so their deaths were cruel and slow. As this was the first public execution in Minsk it was well documented by the 707th Infantry Division which is where the photo's come from. Interestingly in her native Belorussia they refuse to recognize her, some speculate this is as she is Jewish.

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