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Thread: Panzerzuge.

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post

    It was substantiallymodernized in the 19305, though still retaining the older appearance of the 1920 train.
    Did you mean 1930 or 1935 PK


    "A pint of sweat saves a gallon of blood."
    - General George S. Patton
    "War Isn't about Dying for your country, its about making the other basterd die for his." - Patton

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.

    I mean 1930s with an "S", sorry, is the dislexia.
    Last edited by Panzerknacker; 05-16-2010 at 04:05 PM.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.

    Oh Its no problem, it happens alot to me.
    Here is a Finnish Armoured train during the winter war 1939-1940

    I see that there is flak cannons on top, hard to tell though


    "A pint of sweat saves a gallon of blood."
    - General George S. Patton
    "War Isn't about Dying for your country, its about making the other basterd die for his." - Patton

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.

    The value of armoured trains??

    If you have a pretty static front and a good railroad network, so to enable mobile artillery by "artillery trains", I can see the point, but have anyone seen something like a cost/benefit analysis of all these strange one-offs?

    If you run trains through partisan´ed country the partisans are likely to use them for target practice and someone will then probably propose to armour the trains, but then again what partisans, saboteurs and the like really prefer is de-railing, blowing bridges and obstructing the rail network in any possible way, most of which armour on the train or not makes no difference.

    Was it worth the bother for any of the users?

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.

    Last edited by Egorka; 05-24-2008 at 05:23 PM.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.

    Quote Originally Posted by snebold View Post
    The value of armoured trains??

    If you have a pretty static front and a good railroad network, so to enable mobile artillery by "artillery trains", I can see the point, but have anyone seen something like a cost/benefit analysis of all these strange one-offs?

    If you run trains through partisanŽed country the partisans are likely to use them for target practice and someone will then probably propose to armour the trains, but then again what partisans, saboteurs and the like really prefer is de-railing, blowing bridges and obstructing the rail network in any possible way, most of which armour on the train or not makes no difference.

    Was it worth the bother for any of the users?

    I agree. But some of these trains were clearly geared towards anti-aircraft artillery. One legendary battle took place between low flying American B-24 Liberators using the railway to guide them to Ploesti oil refinery in Romania, and a German "flak train." I believe the ball turret gunners managed to knock it out. But some planes were lost...

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.

    The german armored trains main objetive was to killing tanks and fight off partisans, I think against tanks those were more succesful, some carried old french tanks to unload and get the fight outside the rails.

    8,8 cm Flak 41 kill marks , this was mounted in a car agregated to the panzerzug 24 in 1943.





    Note also the aircraft killmarks painted over the gun barrel.

    How effective was the panzerzuge attacking partisans ? is hard to say.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.

    A running battle between a flaktrain and a formation of B-24Žs... whoŽd expected that ...the stuff cartoons are made of

    The german armored trains main objetive was to killing tanks and fight off partisans, I think against tanks those were more succesful, some carried old french tanks to unload and get the fight outside the rails.
    Would have expected a train to be too large and predictable a target for use against tanks, and enemy (tanks) and any train a bad mixture

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.

    Is an obvious target but a hard nut to crack unless you have a direct hit in the locomotive or the towing vehicle, and still it can fire at you. But yea we definately need some info about Tank vs train fighting.


  10. #25
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.

    One bad thing to me off the top would be if your train was hit hard enough with enough velocity, say, a 150+mm shell, the train could fall over... Sure this sounds unlikly, but it could happen if the shell was big enough and flying fast enough... But it still sounds hard to believe...

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.

    Hmm, I dont think so, probably you destroy only one wagon, but the rest could keep fighting...if the crew is not demoralised or something like that.

    Video , Flak train in action against ground targets in the East:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZqnkDemE_M



    The guns are the 2cm Flak 30 and two 88mm Flak 36, looking this armament is not to hard to imagine his antitank use.
    Last edited by Panzerknacker; 05-26-2008 at 12:28 AM.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.

    And this is excellent!!

    Die Deutsche Wochenschau No. 685. October 20, 1943. A German Armoured train behind Army Group Center is prepared for action. Armoured scout cars are outfitted for rail way duty to precede the train in partisan territory. The enemy is spotted by the scout cars and the armoured train is alerted. The train opens up on the partisans. Under cover of artillery fire, grenadiers head out to assault the position.

    http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBmESAmLQ9s



    So if the video is accurate the armored cars was usually send in the front and it called the panzerzuge whe find some trouble. Interesting the use of dismounted infantry, I tough all the crew was for manning the guns inside.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Panzerzuge.


    25 result found for panzerzug in the commons Bundesarchiv gallery, a bit scarce but still good.


    http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...chiv+panzerzug

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