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30mm aircraft automatic gun. - Page 2
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Thread: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

  1. #16
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    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    Beautiful information and pictures boys, interesting the "japanese Schräge musik", keep up the god job !! step by step we are uncovering this little known topic.

    I find a little picture of the Ho-204 37 mm, "horsecollar" feed autocannon. it remember me the loading system in the Airacobra gun.



  2. #17

    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by genkideskan View Post
    Well, we all need documents for our threads. These japanese document is a crude translation and I will ask a japanese friend for a new better translation.
    These document mentioned that the gun was developed as an anti tank gun -used in gondolas under the wings. Later it was used elsewhere of course.
    The cartridge is a more or less complete new developement.
    Oh, an airborne anti-tank gun - that's possible, I suppose, but I think it is unlikely because the performance of the cartridge was quite low, and armour penetration would have been limited.

    The Ho 203 used a 37 x 133 R cartridge originally made for a small trench gun.
    The tank and anti tank round is a 37 x 166 R.
    Not quite - the 37x134R cartridge was actually developed for the Type 94 tank gun. The Type 94 anti-tank gun, and the Type 98 tank gun, both used the 37x165R cartridge. So did the Type 94 manually-loaded aircraft gun fitted to some Ki-45 planes (I used to think this used the 37x134R, but I was wrong).

    Edit to add: the Ho-203 used yet another round, the low-velocity 37x112R.
    Last edited by Tony Williams; 04-25-2008 at 04:47 AM.
    Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website

  3. #18

    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post
    I find a little picture of the Ho-204 37 mm, "horsecollar" feed autocannon. it remember me the loading system in the Airacobra gun.
    No, that's the Ho-203.
    Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website

  4. #19
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    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    No, that's the Ho-203.
    You are correct this jap guns topic is beginning to lost me.

    So many cartrigdes cases for the same caliber...

  5. #20
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    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    The list of japanese trial aircraft guns fills two pages

  6. #21
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    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    Hehe, someone might think that the germans had a lot of them , seems the japs were not behind in expermiental bussines..

    Some pictures of experimental Mgs and MKs from "The machine gun Volume 3" J.M Chinn.




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    Last edited by Panzerknacker; 04-25-2008 at 07:47 PM.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    The Ho 203 was with a length of 1,50m and a weight of 89 kg a very compact weapon.Tony is right it fires the 37 x 111 R cartridge.The cage is fixed to the gun and holds an 15 shot belt. Rate of fire was 120 rd/ min.
    Ho 203 is written to the cartridge case and the projectile is shorter and lighter than the original load for the Type 11 (1922) army infantry gun.
    It was used in the nose of the Kawasaki Nick fighter and trials where made in Dinah rec. planes in the night fighter role.
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    Last edited by genkideskan; 04-27-2008 at 04:46 PM.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    The Ho 401 was very similar to the Ho 203 gun. There are 17 cartridges in the cage. The gun weight was about 160 Kg, the length was app. 2m.







    The gun was used in the Ki 102 Randy, mounted in the nose. Mounts in the bomb bays are known too.

    Here a Ho 401 in a ventral position- note the pneumatic.


    The powerful gun in the nose section. Rate of fire 80 rd/ min.





    The 57 x 121 R ammunition was very similar to the cartridge used in the 57mm tank gun.
    The projectile was shorter and use an smaller fuze made for 20mm ammo . It was fired at 560m/sec.



    .
    Last edited by genkideskan; 04-27-2008 at 04:46 PM.

  9. #24

    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    Yep, the Ho-401 was just a scaled-up version of the Ho-203. It suffered from the same problems of a low rate of fire and a low muzzle velocity, which together made it difficult to hit targets unless you got very close.
    Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website

  10. #25
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    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    Excellent again Lothar

    do you know what was the heavy gun used by the Rikugun Ki-93 ??


  11. #26
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    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    Two sets where planned. Anti ship role armed with a Type 88 75mm gun in a venstral bay, like
    the Ki 109.



    Here is a 75 x 493 Type 88 HE shell with T 99 impact/time fuze. This shell was made for the AA gun. Nothing is known about the aircraft ammo. Probably a shorter shell with Type 88 impact fuze. See ammo pictured with the gun, that shell resembles the hollow charge shell.




    Bomber defence role a Ho 401 in ventral position and 2 x Ho 5 20mm guns.

    For rear defence a 12,7 mm gun.
    Last edited by genkideskan; 04-28-2008 at 12:28 PM.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    The gun was manually loaded by the co pilot or the radio man. It was planned to carry 12 rounds, but when 22 planes where delivered to the unit 40 rounds where carried in bins installed in reach of the loader. The pilot aim an fire the gun.
    A trained crew could fire 20 rd/min. The projectile reached 720m/sec.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    I just have found 2 fotos of Ki 44 Tojo fighter armed with wing mounted
    37mm Ho 203 guns. Normally the cage would need bulbed covers. May be the feed system was converted to magazine or belt feed.




  14. #29

    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    No, the Ki-44 never carried Ho-203 - that was a mis-identification. I have participated in long debates about this with Japanese aircraft gun researchers in the West and in Japan.

    Japanese records indicate that the only gun bigger than the 12.7mm Ho-103 fitted to the Ki-44 was the 40mm Ho-301, which is what is shown in your pics. The reason that the barrels look different is that the bolt and front-mounted yoke have been drawn back because the bolt is cocked, so the front of the barrel is exposed (which it isn't in most photos of the gun).

    There never was a different ammo feed for the Ho-203 and, as you say, the continuous-belt "squirrel cage" magazine was far too bulky for wing mounting.
    Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website

  15. #30
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    Default Re: 30mm aircraft automatic gun.

    Possible, but the guns on this fotos protrude a lot more than the 40mm Ho 301 in known fotos, at the wing front.
    You are right the barrel diameter changes -depending on a cocked or uncocked Ho 301 gun, but not the length.

    I wonder if they convert the Ho 203 to belt feed and use the 37 x 110 rimless round for that. So there is no bulk nessessary. That would declare the rimless round. The rim was anoying the push through in a what ever link.
    The cage couldt be removed easily and the inside belt works without cage, mount the gun turned at 90°, ready.

    May be we will look for more fotos and informations and hopefully something showes up.
    What is a fact today might be totally different tomorrow.
    Last edited by genkideskan; 05-06-2008 at 08:05 AM.

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