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View Poll Results: Hitler going to Argentina

Voters
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  • Yhea right. Not a chance.

    15 68.18%
  • Sliver of chance.

    3 13.64%
  • Likely

    2 9.09%
  • True, I have seen Hitler as a old guy

    2 9.09%
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Thread: Could Hitler gone to Argentina?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Default Re: Could Hitler gone to Argentina?

    Excerpts from said survivla myth site:

    (1) A Fa 233 transport helicopter flew a secret operation on Hitler's order from Berlin to Danzig between 26 February and 5 March 1945, returning to Werder near Berlin on 11 March 1945 after a flight of 1,675 kms. [Source: The German Light Cruisers of WWII, Greenhill Books, 2002]. The purpose of this flight is unknown but might have been a trial to test the aircraft's endurance.
    (3) It was only one refuelling stop from there to Bodo in Norway.
    [except that the longest ranging german helicopter had a range of 700km WITH auxilliary tank. The notion of going Berlin-Bodø in a helicopter at this time is ridiculous, they´d chosen any other heavier than air machine.]

    (5) According to SS papers at the Berlin Document Centre, a Ju 390 prototype was at readiness at Bodo, painted in Swedish livery and under heavy SS guard. Suddenly in early May it was no longer there, and nobody knows what happened to it.
    (6) Declassified Argentine intelligence documents state that in May 1945, a six-engined German transport aircraft from Europe landed on a large German ranch in Paysandu province, Uruguay with passengers and equipment, this ranch being near Puntas de Gualeguay about 70 kms out on the road from Paysandu town to Tacuarembo. The mile-wide River Uruguay separates Uruguay from Argentina. On the other bank from Paysandu is Entre Rios province, mostly marsh and wild pasture and a hotbed of German settlers. To transport passengers from Paysandu into and across Argentina was not an enormous undertaking.

    A declassified Argentine intelligence report mentions a large German transport aircraft from Europe landing at a German ranch in Paysandu province, Uruguay at the war's end.
    After a long flight from Europe over the sea, Uruguay is the first neutral country on the South American landmass. It has many German settlers in the country; they tend to live in German villages and many of these settlers own large tracts of land.
    Uruguay was neutral in the Second World War, Argentina was "at war with Germany" from March 1945. The only shots fired in anger between the two of them were the eight depth charges dropped on U-977 in the Gulf of San Matias on 18 July 1945. Certain sections of the police and armed forces in Argentina had been "bought" with Reich gold but it was by no means safe to overfly Argentinean airspace and land a large aircraft, whereas what went on in Uruguay interested nobody, least of all the Uruguayans.



    Adolf Hitler and Martin Bormannn both died in Berlin at the end of the war. Both have been verified beyond doubt, the latter with very recent DNA testing. Thus neither of them escaped via U-boats to South America.

    The book "Aftermath: Martin Bormann and the Fourth Reich" by Ladislas Farago (1974) describes how Martin Bormann arrived to Argentina on the steamer Giovani carrying a Vatican passport in the name of Reverend Juan Gomez. He was apparently welcomed at the pier by by Ludwig Freude and General Juan Batista Sosa Molina, the Minister of War, representing President Peron.

    Wolfgang Eisenmenger, a forensic science professor at Munich University, conducted the DNA testing of Bormann's remains. He seems to have done the work for the Frankfurt justice officials. He also had Bormann's dental, medical, and fingerprint records. Bormann's children (or a distant family member, details a bit fuzzy) provided the blood for the DNA match which was proven conclusive, i.e. that the body was of Martin Bormann. The cause of death was deemed to be self inflicted poisoning.

    end of Quotes.

    I´ve heard several pretty new books state that Bormann most likely died in Paraguay in 1959, but this is disproved if the above DNA story is real.

  2. #17
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Could Hitler gone to Argentina?

    True Borman's skull dug up at Ulap fairgrounds at Berlin have been proved with DNA. What they never explained however was why the skull was caked with red volcanic soil. Hands up Snebold and others where the nearest volcano is in Berlin ?

    ... and nope you are confusing two stories. Incidentally I do not believe Hitler escaped Berlin, however it is a known fact that Hitler's Luftwaffe adjutant Count Nicklaus von Below left the bunker and was flown from an island in Lake Havel by a Bv138 and was then transferred to another aircraft to fly south so he could arrest Goering.

    You really should read your history Snebold.

    The story about a flight to Bodo has nothing to do with Hitler, Berlin, or a helicopter and concerns a Ju-390 flight to Bodo.

    Incidentally the Ju-390 had a Gross weight take off distance of 550 metres and a landing distance of 510 metres with a stall speed of 66 knots. At Gross weight the Ju-390 could use an extremely weak runway with 7.5 PCN or 8,300kg ESWL.

    Course if you aren't a pilot you wouldn't understand any of that would you ?

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Could Hitler gone to Argentina?

    Kiwiguy:

    My previous post is quotes from the site formerly linked to which was about flying Berlin-Bodø in a helicopter.

    Please read the posts and links before writing personal attacks...

  4. #19
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Could Hitler gone to Argentina?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiguy View Post
    Incidentally the Ju-390 had a Gross weight take off distance of 550 metres and a landing distance of 510 metres with a stall speed of 66 knots. At Gross weight the Ju-390 could use an extremely weak runway with 7.5 PCN or 8,300kg ESWL.

    Course if you aren't a pilot you wouldn't understand any of that would you ?
    Umm... I am (and I'm not the only one on here who is either). Accordingly, I understand that talking about "gross weight take off distance" is meaningless. Gross weight is the total weight of the aircraft including all fuel, pax etc. - and since you haven't stated the loading condition the statistics above are meaningless.
    Secondly, you state that it could use a weak runway in that condition. Entirely possible, but such a runway will certainly increase the takeoff distance required due to the greatly increased rolling resistance. I've seen a lightweight motor glider with what would ordinarily be a very short takeoff distance indeed take the whole of a 6,000ft runway to take off before, simply because the grass of the runway was heavily waterlogged and so very soft.
    Finally, site rules are that you must state your sources for statements like these - please do so.
    I have neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent and the merely unfortunate - Curtis E LeMay

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
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    Default Re: Could Hitler gone to Argentina?

    With respect to an aircraft's weight it is not the gross weight which determines the airfield's ability to accommodate the aircraft. That is precisely why the Boeing 747 has so many wheels and bogies.

    The Boeing 747 depending upon variant has a gross weight up around 800,000lb but on a high CBR runway only has the weight footprint of a Boeing 727-200 weighing 209,000lb

    It is the distribution of the aircraft's load which matters and that is related to the amount of wheels distributing the load. The Ju-390 had an Equivalent Single Wheel Load (ESWL) of 8,386kg per wheel. If you chart that on a graph of PCN numbers you will find that corresponds to 7.5 PCn which is a very weak runway indeed.

    Regards Hitler, I have no reason to dispute what Hitler's pilot said:

    by Hitler's personal pilot:
    Hans Baur: Ich flog Mächtige der Welt, (K W Schütz Verlag, Preussisch-Oldendorf, 1973)


    "Early on 30 April 1945 I was appointed Hitler's Luftwaffe adjutant after von Below left the Reich Chancellery...I was summoned on several occasions to the Führer-bunker...in his living room on the last occasion Hitler took both my hands and said, "Baur, I have to take my leave of you." In a state of great excitement I said to him, "You are not going to end it?" Hitler: "We have gone as far as we can. My generals have betrayed me and sold me out, my soldiers do not want to carry on and I cannot take any more!" I argued with Hitler that aircraft were available to fly him to Argentina, Japan or one of the sheikdoms, where he could vanish.....Hitler then gave me his reasons why he wished to stay in Berlin and die there...."
    The fact is Baur could have flown Hitler out and pray tell which aircraft at the time in 1945 was still able to reach Japan or Argentina ?

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