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Thread: Best of: German Engineering

  1. #1
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    Default Best of: German Engineering

    The undertitle says: 7,5 StuH 40 auf Pz.Kpfw.I Ausf. B


    I think that is that coal engine system? My father told me, that when he was young some old Opel Blitz had that system because of the lack of fuel.




    Panzer II with coal engine :P




    Just for the sake of engineering - but it's definately worth a sarcastic laugh - the Sd.Kfz.251 Gepanzertes Kirchenfahrzeug - The Armored Church :P


    And 7. is a Weihwasser Diffuser ('blessed water') - i think it's a fake just because of that
    Greetings Splinter54
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    That's fairly typical of the one big problem with German engineering - never use one simple part where five complicated ones will do...

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    not only coal was used...they could also burn wood and I think even more then that...



    I think that it says 'Fahrschule' at the back of that vehicle

    interesting graveyard

    what panzers/tanks are shown here?
    look at the 'red star' above the wehrmacht kreuz !!!
    Last edited by Koen; 01-27-2008 at 05:03 AM.

    Hardcore CombatMission player & designer

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    well, the right one with the tubes has the carriage of the panzer II. the one on the left may be an italian built tank.

    jens
    "Wo bleibt denn unsere Artillerie?" "Du bist die Artillerie!"

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    That's fairly typical of the one big problem with German engineering - never use one simple part where five complicated ones will do...
    Could you be a little bit more specific about those problematic German objects previously mentioned in your reflection, my dear Mr. Pdf 27? You see, although certain examples of unnecessary complicated devices used within German Armed Forces inventory are well known (for example that curious Maybach OLVAR, hydraulically operated pre-selective gearbox) we do have a complete surfeit of opposite examples as well.



    Argus AS-014 – an almost perfect example of engineering simplicity

    For example, Argus AS-014 pulsejet engine certainly is – as far as I know – almost a perfect example of so called minimalist engineering design. This highly uncomplicated propulsion system, invented and patented by ing. Paul Schmidt in 1928, due to its basic simplicity, was very suitable for mass-production at low cost and provided the V-1 a top-speed equal to or slightly higher than most of the allied propeller-driven fighters of the day. As we all know, due to its simplicity there was a possibility for large-quantity production by means of of low-skilled labor. Of course, thermodynamic efficiency of the aforesaid engine was pretty stumpy, but simplicity certainly was accomplished.



    Argus AS-014 pulsejet engine

    On the other hand, we also have some other bold examples of the German engineering unfussiness that was not only mechanically straightforward, but also highly thermodinamically efficient as well. For example, this almost forgotten, actually highly reliable and robust diesel engine, developed for trucks by Klöckner Humboldt Deutz, actually designed in late1944 and planned for entering operative service in 1945.



    KHD F6L514 - 8000 ccm, 125 HP, specific fuel consumption 185 g/HP/hour

    As you know, the engine was inherently more reliable because air cooling was immune to either freezing or boiling of the coolant around the cylinder heads and cylinders, as well as to thje loss of the coolant. It was also free from any build-up of corrosive products capable to block or restrict coolant passages. Also less maintenance was required in service, because there was neither requirement to check the cooling medium, for level and factual condition, nor the need to inspect connecting hoses for signs of leakage. Of course, industry was not obliged to produce and supply chemical coolant additives as well.

    Furthermore, the whole range of variant fuels was available for this engine. The normal one was gas-oil (Diesel fuel), but the range included fuel oil, kerosene and petrol-lubricating oil mixture in the 90% - 10% ratio!
    Ire Fortiter Quo Nemo Ante Iit!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    Quote Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
    Could you be a little bit more specific about those problematic German objects previously mentioned in your reflection, my dear Mr. Pdf 27?
    Ummm... that's a tad difficult as I was thinking of some specific current examples. I work for a company called Edwards, making vacuum pumps like this beastie here. Our major competitors are a German company called Pfeiffer, with the result that we are naturally very interested in what they do. This gives me a pretty in-depth knowledge of how one German company does things, and this can then be extrapolated to how many other companies do things. Unfortunately knowing what they do, what we currently do and what we're planning to do in future is commercially sensitive so I can't really talk about it here.

    As to the pulse jet, if you get the design right the shutters aren't actually necessary - you can shape the chamber such that the shock wave acts intermittently instead of them (not easily done to be fair). However, I would point out that while the V-1 is relatively simple the V-2 and V-3 are horrendously over-complicated for what you want them to do. The rather pretty curved ballistic casing on the V-2 for instance is totally superfluous and just adds weight, manufacturing time and cost.

    Can't comment on the Deutz diesel without a great deal more detail, but I would note that the specific power seems very low at a little under 16 BHP/litre. The diesel engine on my car for instance produces around 65 BHP/Litre without being horrendously complex. I will accept there have been a number of technical advances since then which will push up the specific power, but the suspicion remains that they have deliberately crippled the power output to get simplicity and reliability. Thermodynamic efficiency may be high, but if the engine is greatly overweight then system efficiency may be much lower as the truck has so much extra weight to pull around (and hence reduced payload).

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    I think that is that coal engine system? My father told me, that when he was young some old Opel Blitz had that system because of the lack of fuel.
    Indeed that was the "holzgaz", it was obtained from slow burning wood, and then compressed into 180-200 bar and put in those large cilinders.

    The power in engine was reduced to about 75-70% compared with power with petrol.

    By the way, is woulb be nice to use the img button, those thumbnails take a lot to load.

    what panzers/tanks are shown here?
    Left: panzer IV chassis, right Panzer II chassis.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post

    By the way, is woulb be nice to use the img button, those thumbnails take a lot to load.
    They don't load faster then, if i attach the image to my post ... ?

    15cm Gebirgshaubitze auf RSO Raupenschlepper


    That Sd.Kfz.251 is told to be powered by wood - steam engine or what?


    That capture T-34/76 uses German Tank tracks!! - I heard about a T-34/85 using Panther wheels, but that seems to be stranger ^^


    A "Drilling" on a Panzer I ?
    Last edited by Splinter54; 01-29-2008 at 05:04 AM.
    Greetings Splinter54
    Honor ruborque!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    They don't load faster then, if i attach the image to my post ... ?

    They do, the problem is with imageshack thumbnails.

    Very nice pics but very very slow ones.

    Better use the "manage attachments" or "IMG", sorry to be a pain but is better in that way.

    A "Drilling" on a Panzer I ?
    Certainly is.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    Nice and rare sequence of a german Do-24 rescuing a downed fighter pilot.
    The Do-24 was a very good airplane, still in use for rescue missions in spain in the 70s.

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zTuKqr7N0h4

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    The "Holzvergaser" device was in fact a two chamber boiler. The big top chamber was filled with wood and the small chamber keeps a small fire to heat up the stuff. The wood released the gas under heat and pressure witch was feeded to the carburator. To keep the heating fire and reload the wood chamber was a little bit tricky and time consuming but safes fuel. The small heating fire often was fired with coal - the wood in the top chamber was not burned but "roasted".

    The Holzvergaser couldt easily screwed up with the german "Fog" device or better known as "Smoke" in english military terminology. These smoke devices where used stationary at airfields, navy yards ect. and mobile on trucks or even tanks to produce a smoke screen to hide tanks, ships, palanes ect..
    These used a big reacting boiler too using different agents and "Fogacid"to produce a thick sitting Smokescreen.
    Last edited by genkideskan; 01-30-2008 at 03:12 AM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    Koen- a liquid fuel refined from anthracite was in use also...

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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    Twitch - WW2 related signatures only please

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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering


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    Default Re: Best of: German Engineering

    The "rheintochter" ground to air missile.
    German surface-to-air missile, tested during World War II, but never completed development. The name translates as 'Rhine Maiden'.

    In 25 September 1942 Goering authorised development of four types of surface to air missiles: unguided rockets (Taifun), target-seeking guided rockets (Enzian); operator optically-guided rockets (Rheintochter and Schmetterling); and radar-guided rockets (Wasserfall).

    This original version of the Rheintochter used a canard aerodynamic layou and had a length of 5.74 m, a diameter of 535 mm, and a 2.65 m wingspan. Mass at launch was 1748 kg, with the second stage totalling 1000 kg. The first stage boost consisted of a solid rocket charge exhausting through eight nozzles. In only 0.6 seconds this accelerated the missile to 300 m/s. After the initial boost four stabilisers in the exhaust controlled the missile, the steel vanes being connected through two moving linkages. The second stage was a steel-cased solid propellant motor, 510 mm in diameter, which provided 4100 kgf for 10 seconds. An acoustic proximity fuse triggered the 150 kg warhead. Six flares on the second stage were used by the operator to visually orient and guide the path of the missile.

    Several variants of the R-1 version of the missile were built between August 1943 and January 1944. 3 were launched, achieving 6 km altitude, 10 to 12 km range, and 485 m/s velocity. These tests did not please the Ministry of Aviation, who needed a rocket that could reach an altitude of 10 to 12 km. Therefore trials were extended, finally totalling 82 launches, with only 4 failures. The missile was then taken to Peenemuende for state trials under the supervision of Dornberger.

    The R-3 version of the missile was designed to achieve the 10-12 km altitude requirement. Work had begun in May 1944, and six launches of the prototype were made in January 1945. There were two variants: the R-3F version with a Konrad engine (Nitric acid/Tonka-250 or Nitric acid/Visol) in the cruise stage; and the R-3R with a solid propellant cruise engine. In both versions parallel booster motors were used in place of the in-line first stage of the R-1. The R-3 had a length of 4.75 m, and an 1170 kg launch mass. The boost motors provided 1400 kgf for 0.9 seconds. Altitude was to be 12 km at a range of 20 to 25 km. However the missile never reached the stage of state trials testing. Peenemuende was abandoned on 20 February 1945, by which time only 15 R-3's had been completed. The solid rocket motor for the R-3R had reached the stage of stand tests on 6 February 1945, but further work was cancelled.

    No fewer than five different guidance systems were developed for the Rheintochter:

    Burgund: optical tracking with radio command guidance
    Franken: optical tracking and radio guidance on the 10 m band
    Alsace: radio tracking and radio guidance on the UHF band
    Brabant: radio tracking and radio control on the 10 m band
    Ganza: panoramic observation and radio beam guidance on the 10 cm band
    None of these guidance systems was ever tested in flight.
    Liftoff Thrust: 13.700 kN (3,080 lbf). Total Mass: 1,170 kg (2,570 lb). Total Length: 4.75 m (15.58 ft). Maximum range: 25 km (15 mi). Boost Propulsion: Storable liquid rocket or solid rocket. Boost engine: Solid rocket. Ceiling: 12,000 m (39,000 ft).
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