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Thread: The Master

  1. #16
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    Default Re: The Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Without knowing the circumstances a picture presents, we can read all sorts of things into it, many of them wrong.
    circumstances... what could be disputed about the circumstances on that photo?

  2. #17
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    Default Re: The Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Egorka View Post
    circumstances... what could be disputed about the circumstances on that photo?
    Everything.

    How do we know that the terrible Aryan wasn't assessing the medical condition of the prisoners and making sure they were fed half an hour later?

    Or he might have had them on their knees on the edge of pit a couple of minutes later?

    Who knows?

    How often have you seen a photo of someone caught in 1/500th of a second that distorts what was really happening?

    The photo itself tells us nothing.

    Any more than this photo of a French soldier in WWI tells us what he's doing, apart from stealing everything he can, right down to buttons off their collars, from the German prisoners lined up to meet his theiving hands. Or maybe inspecting them for lice.

    Who knows, just from looking at a photo?



  3. #18
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    Default Re: The Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    Oh what ugly soviet soldier from middle asia?
    And what nice german guy near him
    Just imagine like those "middle asia subhumans" soon will f...k the gremans woman in 1945
    I hope you are nor bragging about the crimes of the Red army against the german civilian population.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egorka View Post
    My point? I feel like I want to break his jaw. That is my point. Though I am not proud of this rage of mine...
    Breaking the jaw to a person already dead ?, ha, good luck with that.

    I think the picture shoulndt be called "the master" but "the tragedy", is never amusing be a prisoner of war, if you was soviet prisoner in german hands the thing became gloomy and if you was prisoner of the Waffen SS ( like this picture) the thing is definately tragic.

    The same happened in the other way, the SS men prefered to shoot themselves before being captured by the russians.

    If someone think that is something comic or funny in the picture ...well, there is no any of that.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: The Master

    The problem with photos is always that it is a snapshot of a fraction of a second, and does not reveal the context, or emotion of that moment, or of preceeding, or subsequent moments. much as taking out two random letters from this post, and trying to construct the rest of the text just from them. Unless the weapon, or fist is doing the deed in that fraction of a second, it sadly. proves nothing..

  5. #20
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    Default Re: The Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post
    If someone think that is something comic or funny in the picture ...well, there is no any of that.
    Funny!? That is bloody not funny at all.

    I signed it "The Master" because that is how, I THINK, that SS guy felt when he participated in that staged photage intended for the nazi propaganda.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: The Master

    @ Rising Sun*and Tankgeezer

    The context for his picture is not only what you see here and now, but also the knowledge about other events during WW2. In this light there is nothing contradictinal about this photo. Nothin more or less can be misinterpreted that whould lead to principal change in the impression this picture make.

    If I am wrong, then tell me what is disputable in here.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: The Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Egorka View Post
    @ Rising Sun*and Tankgeezer

    The context for his picture is not only what you see here and now, but also the knowledge about other events during WW2. In this light there is nothing contradictinal about this photo. Nothin more or less can be misinterpreted that whould lead to principal change in the impression this picture make.

    If I am wrong, then tell me what is disputable in here.
    I guess we all know by now that WWII was NOT just about tankbattles, dogfights etc...

    There were indeed the 'endlösung', 'arbeit macht frei', Waffen-SS misconducts etc....

    But what can we do about it?
    We can have endless disussions about it but what's the point?

    Should we avoid to talk about it? NO
    Should we concentrate on it? NO

    It's just that there will be thousands of this kind of pictures with every one of them capable of creating very long discussions...

    I for instance would appreciate it more when I see new pictures of Pz V's then a picture of a Waffen-SS soldier beating up a prisoner.
    And the Waffen-SS soldier I only take as an example..there were misconducts on every side against prisoners/POW's

    K

    Hardcore CombatMission player & designer

  8. #23
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    Default Re: The Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post
    I hope you are nor bragging about the crimes of the Red army against the german civilian population.
    No am not bragging.
    I just want to mention one more times that the crimes of Red Amry was te direct resault the crimes in the East ( but in much great scale). To the contrast of the Waffen-SS in Red Army nobody look at the GErmans pows as at the subhumans.
    And i fully understand the Egorka's feelings.The Nazy race superiority theories concerning East European slavs is more than simple demagogy.
    They actually look at the us as at the subhumans and treat our russian pows by such way.

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

  9. #24
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    Default Re: The Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Koen View Post
    It's just that there will be thousands of this kind of pictures with every one of them capable of creating very long discussions...
    I do not know if there are tousands of exactly this kind of pictures. This is more or less the first one I see where you see that face to face interaction.
    That is is the whole point that he is not beating him. Not at that moment anyway. If there was a execution on it it would be less impressive IMO, as it I have seen many of those. But here it is about seeing their faces like that.
    It is his face. And that is all that is there - better than tousand words.

    We should not concentratit on it. Not only on it. But seeing these two faces on one picture, connected by the circumstances at the same moment, can teach a lot about what happened. And it is a great visualisation to the theoretical knowledge that we have.

    I for instance would appreciate it more when I see new pictures of Pz V's then a picture of a Waffen-SS soldier beating up a prisoner.
    And the Waffen-SS soldier I only take as an example..there were misconducts on every side against prisoners/POW's
    K
    I see your point. But for me it is other way around. Tanks come after faces.

  10. #25
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    Default The Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Egorka View Post
    I do not know if there are tousands of exactly this kind of pictures. This is more or less the first one I see where you see that face to face interaction.
    That is is the whole point that he is not beating him. Not at that moment anyway. If there was a execution on it it would be less impressive IMO, as it I have seen many of those. But here it is about seeing their faces like that.
    It is his face. And that is all that is there - better than tousand words.

    We should not concentratit on it. Not only on it. But seeing these two faces on one picture, connected by the circumstances at the same moment, can teach a lot about what happened. And it is a great visualisation to the theoretical knowledge that we have.

    I see your point. But for me it is other way around. Tanks come after faces.
    well, I do agree that this picture has a certain magnetism...you want to look at it again and again..;and you wonder...and you ask yourself questions...

    BUT...when you say that a picture says more then a thousand words you should've posted the picture with only the title and without the comments.

    Hardcore CombatMission player & designer

  11. #26
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    Default Re: The Master

    What can be made of the following picture?

    Is the apparent food tin being given to, or taken away from the Japanese prisoners?

    Is it staged for the camera, like the OP one probably was, or is it just a slice of happy wartime life?

    Is the Allied bloke on the left exulting in the misery being caused by taking food away from the Japs (How do we know they're Japs?) or pleased by the care being shown them? Or maybe just chuffed that he's in the picture?

    What about the casual contempt, even hatred, for the prisoners shown by the Allied bloke on the right, who looks like he'd blow the prisoners away as soon as the photo shoot is over?






    When the Camera Lies

    By Richard Cohen
    Tuesday, September 26, 2006; Page A21

    Thomas Hoepker's photo "Brooklyn, New York, September 11, 2001" has achieved a kind of notoriety. It shows five young New Yorkers on that vividly beautiful late summer day, seemingly sunning themselves on the Brooklyn waterfront as the collapsed World Trade Center smolders in the background. The photo appears to catch the five chatting, ignoring the horror on the other side of the river. It has been interpreted as yet another example of indifference or the compulsion to return to normal even though, as anyone can see, there is nothing normal about what is happening. It is the emblematic photo of our times.

    Photography, of course, is often a lie, and this photo is no exception. It captured a moment, a second or less, when one of the subjects said something and the other four turned toward him and away from the plumes of smoke, so they seemed not to care. This photo, like all photos, lacked context -- what went before and what went after -- and the interpretation of insouciance has been challenged by no less than some of the people in it. They insist they were intensely aware and horrified by what happened.
    My bold. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092500877.html



  12. #27
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    Default Re: The Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Koen View Post
    when you say that a picture says more then a thousand words you should've posted the picture with only the title and without the comments.
    Which comments? This one: "The master... for so long... for a couple of years or so..."

    That is just my vy VERY short comment. Right. Do you think by that I trick people into seeing here what is in reality not there?

  13. #28
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    Default The Master

    sometimes you get the best discussion when you let other people start the discussion...

    when you post a picture and a title people start wondering what the picture is about, why you post it etc...

    let them start a discussion and wait a while...

    I'm an amateur-photographer and this works

    Hardcore CombatMission player & designer

  14. #29
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    Default Re: The Master

    Rising Sun*, save your energy. I know what you are trying to say and I am not arguing with it.
    Yes, pictures can and do lie. But we have to be smart and think, right. We just have to be critical and that is it.

    Honestly, neither of 3 photos you posted here make me think anything like you suggested. Like f.ex. ignorant people and the burning towers. Anf the bloke on the right does not look like he wants to shoot japanese POWs either.

    the point is that I have seen numerous times similar german photage of the RKKA POW. I know what the voice behinfd the camera whould say about them. I know what SS and Wermacht soldiers had in mind about them (I am reading curently the book "Letter from the Eastern Front", Copenhagen, 2006 about privat letter analysis of the soldiers).
    So as for me I have all the context I need. Because those people became symbols ones frosen on the photo. And it does not matter if that SS guy had in reality a tiny bit of compassion to that Kirgiz boy.
    Last edited by Egorka; 01-24-2008 at 09:20 AM.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: The Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Koen View Post
    sometimes you get the best discussion when you let other people start the discussion...

    when you post a picture and a title people start wondering what the picture is about, why you post it etc...

    let them start a discussion and wait a while...

    I'm an amateur-photographer and this works
    In a way you are right. I do not hide that I find this photo to be very good at showing REALITY of the interrace interraction at that time. And since I find it so good I wanted to share it.

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