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View Poll Results: What was the real agenda behind Franco s coup ?

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  • To destroy the democratic movement and social reforms.

    3 23.08%
  • To restore the spanish social/political order.

    3 23.08%
  • To save Spain from the Comunism/bolchevism.

    8 61.54%
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Thread: Spanish Civil war, democracy against fascism ?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post
    So what ?The anarchist terror is not a response to Francos s coup, those happen before the Military uprising.

    There was terror in the country long before that, strikers and protesters on the left were often found dead or were killed by police during strikes. Terror happened before the Republicans took power as factions struggled for power. The priests are no different than anyone else...

    And Franco's coup had little to do with saving the priests of Spain; I think his forces killed a few of their own...And I think the numbers of Franco's "White Terror" are far greater than any purges and executions by the Republicans...

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post
    So what ?The anarchist terror is not a response to Francos s coup, those happen before the Military uprising.
    The leftist actions were in part a response to rightist actions going back over a century, as typified by the Society of the Exterminating Angel run by a Catholic bishop about a century before the Spanish Civil War. The Society existed to exterminate liberals.
    p.44 at http://books.google.com/books?id=p7v...Qfj8Y#PPA44,M1

    It's a chicken and the egg situation. Neither side had clean hands.

  3. #18
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    The leftist actions were in part a response to rightist actions going back over a century, as typified by the Society of the Exterminating Angel run by a Catholic bishop about a century before the Spanish Civil War. The Society existed to exterminate liberals.
    Perhaps but they made use of a weak spot in the fresh republican goverment wich was sadly that the police had orders to not intervene and the Guardia Civil didnt do anything to stop it the looting and burning.

    Dear Nick, if you have some idea of how ultracatolic was ( and I have some because I have some relatives there) a large part of the Spanish population you might aprecciate the shock that those assasinations caused...not to mention the wish of revenge. Obviously at the end nobody had clean hands, but this only help to justify the Nationalist "no mercy" rule against prisoners of war, particulary anarchist.

    And yes, the Nationalist forces killed some priest, all in Basque country, the alleged reason was "to morally support a godless movement"


    By the way here is an interesting document wich deal with the prelude of the war:

    http://stage6.divx.com/History---Wor...ude-to-Tragedy

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post
    Perhaps but they made use of a weak spot in the fresh republican goverment wich was sadly that the police had orders to not intervene and the Guardia Civil didnt do anything to stop it the looting and burning.

    Dear Nick, if you have some idea of how ultracatolic was ( and I have some because I have some relatives there) a large part of the Spanish population you might aprecciate the shock that those assasinations caused...not to mention the wish of revenge. Obviously at the end nobody had clean hands, but this only help to justify the Nationalist "no mercy" rule against prisoners of war, particulary anarchist.

    And yes, the Nationalist forces killed some priest, all in Basque country, the alleged reason was "to morally support a godless movement"


    By the way here is an interesting document wich deal with the prelude of the war:

    http://stage6.divx.com/History---Wor...ude-to-Tragedy
    I'm not defending the non-intervention by the Civil Guard into murders and rampages against the Catholic Church. However, could anyone find Franco's wholesale genocide against anyone even slightly left-of-center, including liberal capitalists? Numbers as high as 200,000 of them? And don't kid yourself, not all of those priests were "innocent men of God martyred" either...

    He's no "hero." He could have returned the country to civil democratic rule, but instead ran it as a corrupt, fascist regime that continued extra-judicial killings and formed a a virtual slave class out of the defeated legions of the Republicans for years...

  5. #20
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    I'm not defending the non-intervention by the Civil Guard into murders and rampages against the Catholic Church
    I never said you did.

    He's no "hero." He could have returned the country to civil democratic rule, but instead ran it as a corrupt, fascist regime that continued extra-judicial killings and formed a a virtual slave class out of the defeated legions of the Republicans for years
    Obviously not, a man who stay in power more than 30 tears hardly could be callled hero. the slave thing... well I need to search more info about.

  6. #21
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  7. #22
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    On a side note, isn't anything but 'anarchist' to join together into military units?

  8. #23
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    A lot of those that referred to themselves as "anarchists" were as much totalitarian socialists as the Communists.
    1884 electric cartridge. Look similar to anything?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Stoat View Post
    A lot of those that referred to themselves as "anarchists" were as much totalitarian socialists as the Communists.
    A. Doesn't matter who they are. They're all politicians. They all want power. Usually the most vicious fights are within rather than without the organisation. What remains often has more, rather than less, in common with the enemy. The circle of extremism that meets at the top.


    B. About fifteen years ago, in my day job, an anarchist came to me.

    He wanted advice about incorporating a club for anarchists.

    As I so often do, I made an ill advised comment, along the lines of

    "It intrigues me why the first thing that happens when a couple of anarchists get together is that they want to form an organisation."

    He seemed offended.

    I never saw him again.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    A. Doesn't matter who they are. They're all politicians. They all want power....
    Exactly!

    B. About fifteen years ago, in my day job, an anarchist came to me.

    He wanted advice about incorporating a club for anarchists.

    As I so often do, I made an ill advised comment, along the lines of

    "It intrigues me why the first thing that happens when a couple of anarchists get together is that they want to form an organisation."

    He seemed offended.

    I never saw him again.

    LOL That reminds of that band, Chumbawamba I think, that had that big hit in the late 1990s "Tub Thumping." They referred to themselves as an "anarchist collective." This made them ripe for continual ownings by journalists asking them how you can be a anarchist in a collective.

    It's a great drinking song though...

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    That reminds of that band, Chumbawamba I think, that had that big hit in the late 1990s "Tub Thumping." They referred to themselves as an "anarchist collective." This made them ripe for continual ownings by journalists asking them how you can be a anarchist in a collective.

    It's a great drinking song though...
    All songs are great drinking songs, if you drink while listening to them.

    With one exception, I have never heard a song that can't be drunk to.

    Or that can't be listened to while drunk.

    Some songs encourage being drunk when they're played, such as anything by the Bay City Rollers, Mrs Miller, Tiny Tim, and all gangsta rap bad *** bling mofo pop a cap in da face of ma biaatch shit.

    As for Chumbawamba, it's been very popular with various motivational and advertising thingies.

    And here's the song that is unbearable sober and, uniquely, even less bearable when drunk, which when not speaking in tongues has the temerity to refer to being drunk in the lyrics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeuNxMY_5Uo

  12. #27
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    Picture from the Spanish Civil War:
    1. La guerra ilustrada
    2. Spanish Civil War Propaganda
    Very nice galleries, thanks. Definately the Republica won the propaganda war.

    This is a good one "Marx, tu semillo fructifico", Marx your seed has grown...speak for itself.



    Incidentally the PSOE is the todays ruling party in "multinational" Spain.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Spanish Civil war, democracy against fascism ?

    Hi I have read this article about the spanish civil war but I still don't understand could somebody please explain to me?"

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Spanish Civil war, democracy against fascism ?

    Tell me wich part you dont understand and I ll be pleased to explain you.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Spanish Civil war, democracy against fascism ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post
    Very nice galleries, thanks. Definately the Republica won the propaganda war.

    This is a good one "Marx, tu semillo fructifico", Marx your seed has grown...speak for itself.



    Incidentally the PSOE is the todays ruling party in "multinational" Spain.

    Well, at least they can have elections now...

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