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Thread: "Able Archer" and on the Brink of Nuclear War in 1983

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Because, you silly Russian man , America was a benevolent nation which meant nobody any harm and could not cause justifiable fear in anyone just because it was bristling with nuclear weapons aimed at various Russian targets, among other places.

    The USSR, however, was an evil nation bristling with evil nuclear weapons which it might use against the benevolent USA which, at the time, was resolutely against denials of democracy such as invading Afghanistan.

    .
    That's great RS.
    That is i love you what for you always know the truth...
    Sure you right he is silly russian, that losed Cold war, as wel as silly Japans and Germans losed WW2
    But how have you guessed that the USSR was a evil nation?
    I though it was a Top soviet secret ....
    Do you accidentally not a lawyer in Australian department of CIA?
    Might this reason do not let you to show us your photo?

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    It's easy mate.
    They were just bunch of capitalist maniacs who has organized the Milirtary exercises near the border in aim to scare the Soviet paranoidal govenment
    The whole 40 year the west scared the Soviet by the Nuclear threat - so it is not amazing that the Soviets had finally become the paranoid and mistrustfull in 1983
    Reverse that.

    Weren't the Soviets the same?

    Or did their ICBM silos have soft cuddly things on top so that their nukes on landing or at pre-determined air-burst heights wouldn't go off to upset the children in the target areas?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Reverse that.

    Weren't the Soviets the same?

    Or did their ICBM silos have soft cuddly things on top so that their nukes on landing or at pre-determined air-burst heights wouldn't go off to upset the children in the target areas?
    i know the soviets did the same.
    but who began it first ?
    Who has droped the shit on the japane heads?

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    But how have you guessed that the USSR was a evil nation?
    We knew you were evil, mate, because you were commos.

    The fear of commos kept our conservative governments in power for years.

    But, at the time, it wasn't a joke. Think about the communist thrusting in Korea and later in Vietnam where the proxy wars were played out. It's all very well slagging America as the imperialist aggressor, but it takes two to tango.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    I though it was a Top soviet secret ....
    Do you accidentally not a lawyer in Australian department of CIA?
    Sad to relate but true. I was sort of recruited by one of our security services after universtity but (and this is how worlds are lost) my wife said she didn't want to be married to a spy. She wasn't actually my wife at the time. She is now.

    Do I need to say more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    Might this reason do not let you to show us your photo?
    Mate, feast your eyes on the mighty FE.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    We knew you were evil, mate, because you were commos.

    The fear of commos kept our conservative governments in power for years.
    Oh mate i did not guess that we were so bad
    Really do we want to kill you and your famely?
    And nationalized all your millions of dollars,plants , yachts and personal aircraft
    Oh, i forget, yor have no a plants and yachts?
    So why do you FEARED the commi so long time?
    Coz you 'conservative gov" inspired it to you?
    But, at the time, it wasn't a joke. Think about the communist thrusting in Korea and later in Vietnam where the proxy wars were played out. It's all very well slagging America as the imperialist aggressor, but it takes two to tango.
    So on your mind the Ameirican imperialistic agressor was better then the Soviet one.
    Why
    Sad to relate but true. I was sort of recruited by one of our security services after universtity but (and this is how worlds are lost) my wife said she didn't want to be married to a spy. She wasn't actually my wife at the time. She is now.

    Do I need to say more?
    Oh was it kind of Australian evil KGB?

    Mate, feast your eyes on the mighty FE.
    Oh you right , sorry

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    Oh mate i did not guess that we were so bad
    Really do we want to kill you and your famely?
    And nationalized all your millions of dollars,plants , yachts and personal aircraft
    Oh, i forget, yor have no a plants and yachts?
    So why do you FEARED the commi so long time?
    Coz you 'conservative gov" inspired it to you?
    Nah.

    Mate, it's 'cos you were commos.

    I'll try to make this simple.

    You = Bad.

    Us = Good.

    How hard can it be to work out good from bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    So on your mind the Ameirican imperialistic agressor was better then the Soviet one.
    Why
    Naturally the American imperialistic aggressor was better than the Soviet non-imperialistic non-aggressor that wasn't supplying SAM's and SAM crews etc to North Vietnam, because the Americans weren't bombing Laos and other places the Americans weren't bombing where there weren't Soviet SAM crews etc.

    If you think about it, it was really a war that didn't happen as nobody from America or the USSR was actually anywhere where the war didn't happen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    Oh was it kind of Australian evil KGB?
    I'm offended by this.

    What makes you think that Australia could ever run anything even a quarter as efficient as the KGB? Most of the time we'd be flat out running one of your tractor factories.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Nah.

    Mate, it's 'cos you were commos.

    I'll try to make this simple.

    You = Bad.

    Us = Good.
    I do understand that logic mate
    I do not understand - what personally you did fear in commi?
    What they did a bad for you?Or what they want to did against you?
    Naturally the American imperialistic aggressor was better than the Soviet non-imperialistic non-aggressor that wasn't supplying SAM's and SAM crews etc to North Vietnam, because the Americans weren't bombing Laos and other places the Americans weren't bombing where there weren't Soviet SAM crews etc.
    nah mate
    You have confused the concequense of events.
    Initially the Americans bombed the Vietnam and only after that the Soviets began to supplythem by the SAM's.
    So from this point the If the Americans has not started the first - this war would never heppend, right?
    If you think about it, it was really a war that didn't happen as nobody from America or the USSR was actually anywhere where the war didn't happen.
    Absolutly agree.
    However it why only the soviets was bad?


    I'm offended by this.

    What makes you think that Australia could ever run anything even a quarter as efficient as the KGB? Most of the time we'd be flat out running one of your tractor factories.
    Oh sorry my friend
    I just thought that Australia is a great importaint state. Ans as any great state should be great in everythin- even in secret service

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    I just thought that Australia is a great importaint state. Ans as any great state should be great in everythin- even in secret service
    Mate, if our secret service was a dog, it couldn't lick its own arse without biting off its own balls. By accident. Because it lacks the ability to do it intentionally. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...15/2091387.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Egorka View Post
    Paranoid? Maybe they were. I guess they were.

    So lets try to look at it from outside:
    • USSR tried to scare USA.
    • USA tried to scare USSR.
    • Caving under the phsycological presure USSR leaders got paranoid and mistrustfull.


    So the question how do we characterise the US goverment? There were either paranod or not. Right?
    All fair points. But I think one of the problems here was that Soviet intelligence was as guilty of framing the collection and interpretation of intelligence information to meet a predetermined world view of in this case, much as US intelligence was guilty of the same thing on the eve of the second Gulf War, rather than the other way around. That is, they were selectively culling intelligence that met one set of expectations (of which they had nothing tangible or certain), then they were ignoring or dismissing indicators that showed that NATO was not going to attack and that there was absolutely no evidence (i.e. their spy at NATO HQ)..

    If they were paranoid then they were no better than their counterpart. My point proven.

    If they were not paranoid than they were not afraid of USSR. But then why the public in the USA was so paranoid about it?
    I think you mean they were "no worse" that the US or NATO as far as paranoia, of which I would both agree and disagree...

    What the USSR was guilty of doing was falling for the same aggressive, sabre-rattling rhetoric from the Reagan Admin. than they themselves had historically made. While it is true that there seems to have been a long running habit of certain Neoconservatives in the US gov't like Donald Rumsfeld, to exaggerate Soviet military capabilities in order to justify new weapons systems and defense spending, there was no incidence of coming close to conducting a nuclear first strike with the total absence of any direct confrontation over some sort of an international incident...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Egorka View Post
    Well, I do not think we should focuse on KAL007 too much in this thread, but Chevan has a point - it is a brick (just like the episode with Stanislav Petrov) in the big picture which was in it's turn very largerly affected by the "Able Archer". So it is ralated to "Able Archer" topic.
    Oh I agree that it played a part in what happened here. I just ask that we not go off onto another conspiracy tangent because that incident is very clearly a separate issue...

    I would say that there were hundreds, if not thousands, of both sides probing each others air defenses and fighter response times. But I would add that a discussion as to whether the KAL007 was some sort of intentional conspiracy by the US to cause a shoot down in which they could blame on the, in Reagan's words, "Evil Empire" is off topic.

    In fact, we can discuss those incidents in a separate thread...

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevan View Post
    It's easy mate.
    They were just bunch of capitalist maniacs who has organized the Milirtary exercises near the border in aim to scare the Soviet paranoidal govenment
    The whole 40 year the west scared the Soviet by the Nuclear threat - so it is not amazing that the Soviets had finally become the paranoid and mistrustfull in 1983

    Yeah, because Able Archer was the only military war game/maneuver ever conducted by either side of the Cold War...

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Because, you silly Russian man , America was a benevolent nation which meant nobody any harm and could not cause justifiable fear in anyone just because it was bristling with nuclear weapons aimed at various Russian targets, among other places.

    The USSR, however, was an evil nation bristling with evil nuclear weapons which it might use against the benevolent USA which, at the time, was resolutely against denials of democracy such as invading Afghanistan.

    http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1982reagan1.html

    As for the Presidential comment about toxin warfar in S.E. Asia http://www.lewispublishing.com/orange.htm , what an absolute pisser by a President who carefully avoided military service in WWII, a tradition of principle or cowardice nobly followed by Clinton and Bush Jnr.
    You see, this is one of the great positives that came out of the Able Archer incident. Even though we were on the brink, almost inexplicably, it shocked both governments into some sanity, and may have been one of the biggest single factors of the US and USSR reestablishing Détente...

    Few people remember that Reagan was asked, while in Moscow to see Gorbachev, whether he still thought of the Soviets as the "evil empire," and he said "no" while emphatically shaking his head...

  13. #28
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    Default Re: "Able Archer" and on the Brink of Nuclear War in 1983

    "Able Archer 83' Part I":

    http://www.youtube.com/v/UUGq0JdupNY&hl

    The rest (parts 2-8) here.

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