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Thread: Giap

  1. #1
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    Default Giap

    Vo Ngyen Giap was a North Vietnamese General.

    Ngyuen, pronounced 'New-yen' is a common name in Vietnam, it means 'Pray' and can be applied to either sex.

    Anyone know how one pronounces 'Giap' and what it might mean?
    Last edited by 32Bravo; 09-12-2007 at 03:02 AM.


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    Pronounced Yap

    Means tank, armour, that type of thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Pronounced Yap

    Means tank, armour, that type of thing.
    Now that is interesting.

    It must have begun as a nickname, do you think?

    As far as I can see, the Ngyuen is the equvalent of a surname, or family name, and is shared by many of the Vitenamese. It would appear that the last name is the equivalent of a forename, in this case Giap.

    Thanks for the pronunciation, RS. I always assumed it was 'Jap' until recently, when something sparked my curiosity.
    Last edited by 32Bravo; 09-12-2007 at 03:08 AM.


    "Although God cannot alter the past, Historians can"


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    Quote Originally Posted by 32Bravo View Post
    Now that is interesting.

    It must have begun as a nickname, do you think?

    As far as I can see, the Ngyuen is the equvalent of a surname, or family name, and is shared by many of the Vitenamese. It would appear that the last name is the equivalent of a forename, in this case Giap.

    Thanks for the pronunciation, RS. I always assumed it was 'Jap' until recently, when something sparked my curiosity.
    I always read it as "Jap" but apparently that's not how it was pronounced. Maybe it's not Yap either, as my understanding is that Vietnamese is a tonal as well as phonetic language, like Chinese.

    I have no confidence in Vietnamese pronunciations. I've been assured by a good number of Vietnamese that Ngyuen is pronounced anything from "Nwin" to "Noyen". Maybe it's a regional or dialect thing. As for Ng, which is at least as common, it has only two letters and possibly manages a wider range of claimed pronunciations.

    I don't know if Giap was his real or an assumed name. Mabye he chose it at some stage.

    Ho Chi Minh's birth name definitely didn't include any of those names and he used many names during his life, before settling on Ho Chi Minh in the, apparently, early 1920's. Supposedly it means all sorts of impressive things, depending upon who you read. Here's one history http://www.vietquoc.com/0006vq.htm

    Maybe it was a custom in those circles to pick impressive names, or just a consequence of being in banned / opposition organisations where using an alias was a wise move.

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    P.S.

    I was assuming you knew the answer for the meaning of Giap.

    If not, I've just gleaned it from ranks and units where Giap always pops up in armoured units.

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    P.P.S.

    Where've you been lately?

    Soaking up the English sun?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    P.P.S.

    Where've you been lately?

    Soaking up the English sun?

    Yes, as it happens. I was out and about - around Lieth Hill, in the Dorking area - today. Arrived back as brown as a berry.

    My daughter is home from Uni, at the moment. spends much of her time trawling - or should that be surfing? - fashion sites, can't get anywhere near the P.C.

    Thanks for the info on 'Bac Ho' interesting tha he is yet another Ngyuen or Nguyen - I find it all rather fascinating.
    Last edited by 32Bravo; 09-12-2007 at 02:34 PM.


    "Although God cannot alter the past, Historians can"


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    Quote Originally Posted by 32Bravo View Post
    Vo Ngyen Giap was a North Vietnamese General.

    Ngyuen, pronounced 'New-yen' is a common name in Vietnam, it means 'Pray' and can be applied to either sex.

    Anyone know how one pronounces 'Giap' and what it might mean?
    Well the way I understood and I could be wrong is.....

    Vo....short O
    N-gua-yen or if you understand norwegian N...short N. g-yen
    Gee-ap in norwegian gi-ap

    101st Airborne

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    That exprains it all. The Flench and, rater, the Flee World Forces were barking up the wong twee, they should have been bombing Osro.


    "Although God cannot alter the past, Historians can"


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    I wonder if anyone can help here?

    I was having drink with some old chums, the other day, and after a few of the Bushmills, we became involved in one of those 'memory-lane' type conversations. Anyway, we were casting our minds back some forty years or more - some feat after the Bushmills - and were trying to recall as many British (and I assume Australian etc.) Army sayings that had their origins in Empire. How it came about was that I mentioned a lady I met in the Sudan, a couple of years ago, asking for Bukshees.

    Anyway, what we were trying to do was compile a list of words or phrases, their origin and their meaning.

    For example

    Bukshee origin: Indhi?

    meaning: (1) 'surplus to' or (2)'of no account'

    (1) Bukshee kit (2) After apologising to a mate after having ones way with his bird, sheila, chick, he replies 'its bukshee mate'

    So, what we is looking for, is words, their origins and their meanings.

    Here are a few which we could remember, but whose origins and spelling, as far as we were concerned,were uncertain but remain a part of soldier-speak today:

    Basha - anything from use of a tarp as a makeshift shelter, to a large hut. Used in much the same way as the American Forces term Hootch.

    Bhanjo/banjo - bread roll containing food e.g. chip bhanjo, egg bhanjo etc.

    Bukshee - see above

    Bumff - documentation

    Char/chah - tea

    Chahwallah - tea, bhanjo and small items shop, usually contracted by the British Army to a person of Inidian origin, hence Wallah.

    Chit - toilet paper - sorry, just kidding, R.S.

    Dobie/doby - laundry

    Mucker/muckah - mate, cobber, buddy - tovarich

    Pukkah - excellently finished job, the real thing.

    Punk - large fan usually manually operated by a wallah.

    Sahib/sah'b - Sir, gentleman, whiteman.

    Wallah in Empire days, a servant e.g. Dobiewallah, Chahwallah. Punkawallah

    Generally speaking, the wallah has been dropped since the days of Empire, probably with the exception of the Chahwallah, although soldiers usually have a more colourful name for it, but, as one might expect, not very 'politically correct'.

    I have tried surfing the net, but not managed to come up with anything, if anyone can add to the list, it would be most appreciated, Sahib.
    Last edited by 32Bravo; 09-13-2007 at 02:38 AM.


    "Although God cannot alter the past, Historians can"


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    Quote Originally Posted by 32Bravo View Post

    Chit - toilet paper - sorry, just kidding, R.S.
    I suppose that's toilet humour.

    Two more.

    Puttee, being strips of cloth serving the same function as gaiters, but nowhere near as practical, and worn by British forces in WWI (and Japanese in WWII, no doubt with different name) http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...-foot-wear.htm

    Puggaree, being, in Oz, the band of cloth around the base of the crown on a slouch hat. http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...s/puggaree.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    I suppose that's toilet humour.

    Two more.

    Puttee, being strips of cloth serving the same function as gaiters, but nowhere near as practical, and worn by British forces in WWI (and Japanese in WWII, no doubt with different name) http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...-foot-wear.htm

    Puggaree, being, in Oz, the band of cloth around the base of the crown on a slouch hat. http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...s/puggaree.htm
    Or latrine humour?

    My unit always wore puttees, right up until the introduction of high combat boots, which was way after my time. I wore gaiters in basic training, but always preferred puttees. Having said that, we wore them wrapped about the ankles, not up to the knees. The Malayan Scouts (SAS) wore several pairs of puttees - wrapped to the knees in the old fashion - to protect their legs when tree-jumping (parachuting into the jungle).

    As an aside, even though the SAS eventually decided to abandon Tree-jumping as it caused too many casualties during the Malayan Emergency, it was precisely on account of this ability that they were first employed in Borneo several years later. Also, the Ghurka Independant Para Company, was raised to practise the same technique in Borneo and carry out the same activities as the SAS. I'm sure that both units were pleased with the developments of the Whirlwind and Wessex helicopters by Sikorski and Westand.

    The Puggaree is new to me, or I've never taken any notice of it in th past. Presumably, the British bush hats were the same and they too gave it the same name.

    The Ghurka bush hat seems to be of a different design, or is it simply the way they wear it without the turn-up of the brim?

    Two more, Jildy! (not sure of the spelling) meaning "hurry!" and Sangah being a makeshift bunker made from rocks, usually in rocky and mountainous areas e.g. the Western Desert; the North West Frontier and Mount Tumbledown, in the Falklands.

    If anyone can correct any spelling, I'd appreciate it.
    Last edited by 32Bravo; 09-14-2007 at 03:06 AM.


    "Although God cannot alter the past, Historians can"


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    Quote Originally Posted by 32Bravo View Post
    Or latrine humour?
    I don't care what it is, as long as it doesn't give me the chits.

    Don't know if you got this far in puggaree link, but there's a link with Malaya that leads to one of those curious uniform traditions whereby the unit uniform fails to conform with the army uniform.

    Today the Army wears the 7 fold khaki cotton muslin puggaree, (see photo left) with the exception of 1RAR, who wear a green puggaree. (see photo, right)

    That tradition started in Malaya when the regimental tailor, a Mr. Mohavved Beseek, working to a deadline and with no khaki material available made some out of green, British army shirt material he had to hand. The then CO of 1RAR determined that the green puggaree was to remain a 1RAR uniform item.
    1 RAR = 1 Royal Australian Regiment = For practical purposes: First numbered battalion in Australian infantry OOB.

    More on its Malayan service here http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...sasr/1_rar.htm

    I don't know why we call our infantry battalions regiments as part of their formal title. Possibly it's a cunning plan to fool potential enemies into thinking that we have three times more battalions than we really do, on the basis that a regiment in the US can be the equivalent of a brigade in Oz. I don't know that it matters. Indonesia has more than twenty times our population, so I don't think it will be dissuaded from attacking us if it thinks it has only about a seven times numerial advantage instead of its true twenty times advantage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    I don't care what it is, as long as it doesn't give me the chits.

    Don't know if you got this far in puggaree link, but there's a link with Malaya that leads to one of those curious uniform traditions whereby the unit uniform fails to conform with the army uniform.
    This I find particularly interesting. I'm wondering whether the puggaree was designed on the turban in order ot persuade Sikhs to wear it on active duty, as opposed to wearing a turban, or whether it was a show of solidarity with the East Indian members of the Indian Army. Whatever the reason, it is typical of how Empire units absorbed each others' culture in one form or another, much the same as the adoption of the names and sayings being discussed on this thread.

    The green puggaree story is typical of a unit adopting something that is unique to itself, and thus adds to the esprit de corps. I haven't actually seen one being worn though.



    1 RAR = 1 Royal Australian Regiment = For practical purposes: First numbered battalion in Australian infantry OOB.

    More on its Malayan service here http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...sasr/1_rar.htm

    I don't know why we call our infantry battalions regiments as part of their formal title. Possibly it's a cunning plan to fool potential enemies into thinking that we have three times more battalions than we really do, on the basis that a regiment in the US can be the equivalent of a brigade in Oz. I don't know that it matters. Indonesia has more than twenty times our population, so I don't think it will be dissuaded from attacking us if it thinks it has only about a seven times numerial advantage instead of its true twenty times advantage.
    Is Indonesia seen as a threat for any particular reason, or is it simply that its your economically-strongest neighbour?

    I think that you are probably right on this one, regarding numbers of regiments being used to display greater strength.

    I was of thinking that the SASR was used to make the distinction from the British SAS?

    Two more words: Take a Dekho meaning take a look; and gone Dolalli meaning - gone crazy!


    "Although God cannot alter the past, Historians can"


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    The sun has just popped out from behind a cloud - time to get a jildy on and get back to the garden.


    "Although God cannot alter the past, Historians can"


    Samuel Butler


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