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Thread: Why were American APC's more dangerous than Australian ones?

  1. #1
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    Default Why were American APC's more dangerous than Australian ones?

    In Vietnam.

    To the occupants.

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    Time for a clue.

    Brew up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Time for a clue.

    Brew up.
    I hear the word "brew" and I start thinking coffee. Can I have another hint?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllHailCesar View Post
    I hear the word "brew" and I start thinking coffee. Can I have another hint?
    Forget the coffee beans. And brewski, as in beer.

    "Brew up", in the context of this quiz, means in Australian and British usage the fire which occurs when an armoured vehicle gets hit by something nasty.

    There was a significant but basic difference in the 'brew up" risk for American and Australian M113's in Vietnam.

    But that's only about half of this question.

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    Ah....crystal clear now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllHailCesar View Post
    Ah....crystal clear now.
    I try to please.

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    Im definately learning more here than Im contributing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllHailCesar View Post
    Im definately learning more here than Im contributing.
    Not yet.

    Think about compression and ratios.

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    Fuel type ?
    Septic ones being petrol driven & Aussie APCs diesel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuts View Post
    Fuel type ?
    Septic ones being petrol driven & Aussie APCs diesel.
    Exactly.

    As this part is probably too obscure for anyone to know, later Aussie ones also had extra armour in the belly to protect crew, giving them better protection from mines.

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    Default Re: Why were American APC's more dangerous than Australian ones?

    RS* Are you talking about variants of the M113?

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    Default Re: Why were American APC's more dangerous than Australian ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    RS* Are you talking about variants of the M113?
    How the hell would I know what I was talking about two years ago? I don't even know what I'm talking about today.

    The Aussie M113's were presumably delivered from America with diesel motors, or minus the motor which was fitted here.

    My recollection is that the belly armour started out as a field modification in Vietnam, and I think it might have continued that way in base workshops until we left.
    ..
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    Default Re: Why were American APC's more dangerous than Australian ones?

    Yes, if my thinking is correct.
    Kiwis tended to copy Aussie adaptations to the M113.
    Americans were great at improvements to the armaments, but less effective at provision of adequate armour protection.
    By contrast, Aussies and Kiwis "made do" in the armament department, but increased the armour protection of the M113.

    The employment of diesel engines lessened the fire risk if the vehicle were hit, and did not greatly alter the maintenance requirements of the vehicle.

    I do question the employment of the M113 in Vietnam though: like its' Wehrmacht ancestor, the M113 had been designed primarily for a war in European conditions, and was somewhat unsuited to a war in Asia, where weather was more of a factor regarding the stability and suitability of (often waterlogged) ground being crossed in such a mobile war.

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    Default Re: Why were American APC's more dangerous than Australian ones?

    Actually, I have no idea if the Aussie Army increased protection. But the standard US Army "ACAV" modified-version mounted more belly armor in addition to several machine-guns as well as other add-on goodies with local modifications. The M113 also mounted a diesel engine standard after the gas/petrol one was phased out in the mid-60s although some of the first arrivals to 'Nam probably mounted petrol engines unfortunately. I think I read that the Aussies mostly took delivery of the ACAV versions and these may well have been the same the US Army used. Ironically, according to Wiki, it was the South Vietnamese that first up-gunned the M113s and added armor as improvised infantry fighting vehicles rather than just passive APCs...

    I do recall reading however that the aluminum armor was still prone to "melt" after strikes by rocket propelled grenades. I've seen aerial after-battle photos of circular holes on the tops of m113s that literally melted out and completely incinerated their unfortunate crews. But it still was, and is, a very effective system that was extremely useful as long as you didn't ask it to do too much...



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    Default Re: Why were American APC's more dangerous than Australian ones?

    Australia also upgraded the firepower on about a dozen M113s by fitting the turrets of old Saladin armoured cars.They were replaced by ones with Scorpion turrets,

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