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Thread: .303 Browning MG question

  1. #46
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    Default Re: .303 Browning MG question

    From my grandads notes (Air Gunner on Blenhims then rear gunner on Wimpys and later Lancs served 1938-1960) he rarely fired all four brownings at once as the barrels drooped so he fired in pairs.

    He does not say whether he actually shot one down as most raids were night time and you had limited vision of an incoming aircraft (although he does comment that he thought the flak was pretty coloured along with the tracer), more that you tried to keep them away from you 'make you look dangerous so they go for an easier target'

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Default Re: But the M1919A4 was a ground gun anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbo in Oz View Post
    Until about end 1943 in the Pacific, and end 1942 in Europe/Nth Africa adaptation of of free-mounting 0.5" ANM2's and their ammunition, from downed US-made aircraft was very common - but for LAA purposes.

    This pretty much ceased once Allied air supremacy became a common feature in all theatres. At the same time Quad mounts on half tracks and trailers - using standard M2HB's became very common. Add in the advent of plenty of 20mm Oerlikons and Polstens as well.
    Hi Timbo,

    This is a bit off-topic, but the OP was 3 years ago

    It sounds like you have info on the deployment of 20mm Oerlikons and Polstens!

    I had researched British Army use of 20mm AA guns, and found them difficult to nail down.

    Best I can tell, the Oerlikon was available in England from 1940 but perhaps only for RN use? It seems certain it was used by the British Army, but I can't find it listed in any OOB or solid reference.

    I have a couple of vague references (and a photo or two) to the Oerlikon being used in Italy.
    I also have a reference to Support Battalions being equipped with 16 LAA 20mm, in mid 1943.

    I know the British Army (LAA and SAS) used plenty of captured Italian Breda 20mm from 1941.

    The first reference to the 20mm Hispano is Airborne troops training with it in May 1943.

    Airborne switched to the 20mm Polsten which seems to arrive in large numbers and in many different types of mountings and configurations around March 1944.

    I'd be grateful for any additional information.


    (Mods, if this is too 'off-topic' let me know and I'll start a new thread, thanks)

    Cheers,
    Saxon

  3. #48
    Join Date
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    Australia
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    9,286

    Default Re: But the M1919A4 was a ground gun anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    Hi Timbo,

    This is a bit off-topic, but the OP was 3 years ago

    It sounds like you have info on the deployment of 20mm Oerlikons and Polstens!

    I had researched British Army use of 20mm AA guns, and found them difficult to nail down.

    Best I can tell, the Oerlikon was available in England from 1940 but perhaps only for RN use? It seems certain it was used by the British Army, but I can't find it listed in any OOB or solid reference.

    I have a couple of vague references (and a photo or two) to the Oerlikon being used in Italy.
    I also have a reference to Support Battalions being equipped with 16 LAA 20mm, in mid 1943.

    I know the British Army (LAA and SAS) used plenty of captured Italian Breda 20mm from 1941.

    The first reference to the 20mm Hispano is Airborne troops training with it in May 1943.

    Airborne switched to the 20mm Polsten which seems to arrive in large numbers and in many different types of mountings and configurations around March 1944.

    I'd be grateful for any additional information.


    (Mods, if this is too 'off-topic' let me know and I'll start a new thread, thanks)

    Cheers,
    Saxon
    You'd probably get better responses in a thread with a title that reflects the weapon / use you're interested in than in this thread.

    If you'd like, post a suitable thread title and I'll start a separate thread under that title.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  4. #49
    Join Date
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    East Yorkshire
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    Default Re: .303 Browning MG question

    Hi Saxon,
    Thanks for your reply. To answer your question re the range of the Browning 303, I don't know! as I don't think we were ever told? We used to align our 4 rear turret guns on a target at 1500 yds by removing the breach-blocks and looking down the barrels.
    I never ever saw a German kite. I was 14 in 1939 when they started the war, (not my fault!) When I joined the RAF in 1943 my training lasted over a year, I started off as a WOP/AG (Wireless Operator Air Gunner) and then a straight AG as the WOP/AG was scrapped.
    On finishing training etc;was posted to Bomber Command, but I got Rubella (German Measles) and was kept in isolation for 10 days. When I emerged from hospital my crew had picked up another AG and moved on. As no one wanted a sprog AG I spent most of the rest of the war in testing kites that had been repaired after being shot up during raids over the pond. I also went on trips to scatter Windows (strips of silver paper) to fool the krouts radar. I was shot at twice, by our own Navy (shoot first - ask questions later if necessary) B*******.

    Stonkey.

  5. #50
    Join Date
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    Location
    USA
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    87

    Default Re: .303 Browning MG question

    Quote Originally Posted by Stonkey View Post
    Hi Saxon,
    Thanks for your reply. To answer your question re the range of the Browning 303, I don't know! as I don't think we were ever told? We used to align our 4 rear turret guns on a target at 1500 yds by removing the breach-blocks and looking down the barrels.
    I never ever saw a German kite. I was 14 in 1939 when they started the war, (not my fault!) When I joined the RAF in 1943 my training lasted over a year, I started off as a WOP/AG (Wireless Operator Air Gunner) and then a straight AG as the WOP/AG was scrapped.
    On finishing training etc;was posted to Bomber Command, but I got Rubella (German Measles) and was kept in isolation for 10 days. When I emerged from hospital my crew had picked up another AG and moved on. As no one wanted a sprog AG I spent most of the rest of the war in testing kites that had been repaired after being shot up during raids over the pond. I also went on trips to scatter Windows (strips of silver paper) to fool the krouts radar. I was shot at twice, by our own Navy (shoot first - ask questions later if necessary) B*******.

    Stonkey.
    Hi Stonkey,

    It sounds like you had a pretty good war!

    It's a good job those RN lads were rubbish shots huh!

    Both of my Grandfathers were part-time volunteer firemen before the war started, so they were kept in the fire brigade for the whole war. One of them in London the other in Somerset. I had at least one Great-Uncle in the BEF. He was the last one out of Dunkirk (supposedly) and I believe he survived the war.

    The older I get, the more I appreciate your generation, and what you did.

    Thank you for your service (Salute).
    Saxon

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    East Yorkshire
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    3

    Default Re: .303 Browning MG question

    Aw Shucks wuz nuthing really.

    Keep Smiling,
    Stan.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Canberra, ACT. Australiaa
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: .303 Browning MG question

    The Polsten was issued late in WWII in the European theatre, It was a lightened and simplified (number of parts down to about 40%) Oerlikon. Initially to paras and etc. Same drum and ammo.

    the Allies did not need much in the way of super good very light AAA by 1943, and what they did have was fine. The 40MM bofors L60 plus the quad and twin .5"M2HB, and later the Polsten. noting that the kerriosn predictor for the bofors L60 was very good and the LAA regiments thus far outperformed any German units.

    The Germans DID need superb LAA by 1942/3.
    Skeptical mensurer, and audio scavenger.

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