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Thread: Italian Infantry Weapons

  1. #1

    Default Italian Infantry Weapons

    Hi guys,
    these are some italian weapons of ww2:

    Beretta 1934



    Beretta 38/42



    Beretta 38 A



    Breda 301

    Last edited by Cervex; 04-04-2007 at 05:42 AM.

  2. #2

    Default

    Breda 371



    F.N.A.



    T.Z. 45


  3. #3
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    Default

    Welcome Cervex, I'm sure you'll enjoy the site.

    I've worked on some of the WWII Italian MGs, and believe them to be impressive feats of engineering if not exactly ideal practial designs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cervex
    Breda 301


    Breda 371
    Typo for Modello 30 and Modello 37 ?

    Mitragliatrice Breda calibro 6.5mm Modello 30
    (renamed Fucile Mitragliatori Breda Modello 30 in 1935)

    Advantages:
    - Blowback operation: simple construction - just not in this case.
    - Permanently mounted hinged mag: the magazine lips could be properly machined and these parts were therefore less liable to damage than those of detachable mags.
    - Rapid change bbls.

    Disadvantages:
    - Blowback operation: hard extraction which was 'solved' by adding an oil pump to to lubricate the rds prior to chambering.
    - Oil pump: attracted dust & sand to the rds & through the wpn. Produced higher chamber pressures.
    - Permanently mounted hinged mag: a greatly reduced rate of fire and the possibility of the weapon being out of action should the mag body be damaged.
    - Rapid change bbls: no handle with which to grip the hot bbl.
    - No carry handle: the gun must be cradled or carried across the shoulders.
    - No provision for SF mount.


    Mitragliatrice Breda calibro 8 Modello 37

    Once again this had no primary extraction so the trusty (?) oil pump was wheeled out with it's accompanying problems.
    It fed from Hotchkiss-style trays. Some Grappa-gripped genius had the brainfart to design the action so that once the rds had been removed from the strips, chambered, fired and extracted, they were reinserted into the tray ! The gun numbers then had to strip this brass from the trays prior to reloading them.
    The deskwallah theory was that the MG fired a higher pressured rd than the rifles, and the trays and brass would be backloaded. Perhaps the team were thinking of that when incorporating this energy-wasting system into the design, perhaps they were just sitting on their brains.
    I don't think anybody here seriously believes that things run smoothly during wartime, confusion, pressure an enemy action combines to ensue that most systems will go pear-shaped sooner or later, these MG trays were often reloaded with rifle carts.

    Despite these shortcomings, the Model 37 served throughout the war and earned a reputation for reliability...

    ...amongst those who had no experience with foreign MG designs.
    "Don't call me stupid !" - Otto 'Galtieri' West.
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    Default

    Welcome to our forum.

    It fed from Hotchkiss-style trays. Some Grappa-gripped genius had the brainfart to design the action so that once the rds had been removed from the strips, chambered, fired and extracted, they were reinserted into the tray ! The gun numbers then had to strip this brass from the trays prior to reloading them.

    Yeap, that characteristics was retained in the 20 mm automatic cannon, tidy but unnecessary complicated.

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    More on the Breda 6,5 mm MG:














    "The machinegun, history and development. Vol I" J.M Chinn.

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    The little mortar "Brixia".



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    The one constant in Italian arms design, particularly around the Second World War, is how crap their products are!
    1884 electric cartridge. Look similar to anything?

  8. #8

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    Somethings never change. I think the Beretta 1934 bears an uncanny resemblance to Beretta's M9 (aka 92) pistol.

    Also, the Italians, with their modern weapons, were unable to beat the Ethiopians, who had weapons dating back to the 1890s, without the help of the Germans. Sad.

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    Default Re: Italian Infantry Weapons

    Hi All

    Sorry if this post is in the wrong section!!

    What type of flamethrowers did Italian infantry use in WW2 and if so in what theatres ? I seem to recall a pic of an Italian engineer running with a German type flamethrower in Albania ???

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    Default Re: Italian Infantry Weapons

    Also, the Italians, with their modern weapons, were unable to beat the Ethiopians, who had weapons dating back to the 1890s, without the help of the Germans.
    I don't recall any German assistance against the Ethiopians. Can you elaborate?

    What type of flamethrowers did Italian infantry use in WW2 and if so in what theatres ? I seem to recall a pic of an Italian engineer running with a German type flamethrower in Albania ???
    The Italians used the Modelos 35 and 40 as their main flamethrower (lanciafiamme). Both of these had two fuel tanks, though I also believe they had a three-tank version (I can't recall the designation). Viewed in profile, the two tanks might look like the single-tank German Flammenwerfer 34/35.

    Last edited by Ardee; 12-22-2008 at 02:07 PM. Reason: adding photo, fix typos
    "...we have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo (Walt Kelly)

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    Default Re: Italian Infantry Weapons

    Nice info Ardee.

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    Default Re: Italian Infantry Weapons

    thanks for the info, I was always wondering what weapons they would use, because i don't recall ever seeing an italian soldier with one of these (in fact, in the only picture i can recall of an italian soldier with his rifle in view, he held an mp40)

    how widespread where these weapons, especially after the germans occupied italy?

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    Default Re: Italian Infantry Weapons

    Fantastic information. I learn so much here.

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    Default Re: Italian Infantry Weapons

    how widespread where these weapons, especially after the germans occupied italy?
    Hi Schuultz,

    I don't know how widespread these weapons were within the Regio Escrito, but if you do a search for Italian organization on engineering units, you'll probably get an idea. The Italians also exported the weapon to other Axis nations, including Finland, Hungary, and Romania.

    I have no idea of what happened to production/use after 1943. My understanding is that the Italian contribution in manpower to the Allies is best described as modest, and was mostly equipped with American gear. The Axis RSI seemed to use a mixture of Italian and German gear. I can't swear to it, but I seem to dimly recall seeing a photo of a German using the Italian flamethrower, probably in Italy.

    If you want to find general photos of Axis Italian forces, try the Commando Supremo web site, which I'm sure has been referenced to many times before on this site:

    http://www.comandosupremo.com/
    "...we have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo (Walt Kelly)

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    Exclamation Re: Italian Infantry Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Man of Stoat View Post
    The one constant in Italian arms design, particularly around the Second World War, is how crap their products are!


    Didn't Beretta make a decent sub-machine gun though?

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