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Thread: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivaylo View Post
    Maybe a little bit off topic but one question always wonders me when speaking of Italians in WW2 ... does really the italians were so bad fighters in WW2 or that is a fake and they were moderate as they were against superior enemy ? ( something like Germany latter in the war )
    Reading accounts from the early battles against the Italians by the British (Before German intervention)

    Officers were disliked by their troops as they did not suffer any of the hardships that their troops faced, the officer class were pampered and lived completely seperately from their men with plenty of food even when their men were going short.

    The Artilary and Armoured units fought very well often to the death as they had a different relationship between their officers and men. Once the italian Armour and Artillary was knocked out the infantry tended to give up the fight very quickly.

    When faced with British Cruiser and Light tanks they fought quite well but they did tend to get 'Matilda nerves similar to the allies with the Tiger' as the Infantry tanks were impervious to all Italian A/T weapons and troops from one camp would run from the 'Terrible Matilda (II)' to another camp and infect the troops there with fear. (This tends to be the period where most of the huge lines and acres of prisoner pictures come from)

    When Rommel took over he found the Italian troops to be capable 'even with old/poor equipment' but very badly led

  2. #77
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    Gentlemen, go to Italie 1935-45.com for more information Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons , this a very good site for more explanation of different type of guns.
    (sorry for my english)
    friendly fred

  3. #78
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    Rommel says: The German soldier has impressed the world, however the Italian Bersagliere soldier has impressed the German soldier.
    An unknown english pilot says: When i see them [the italians] with their carcasses [their airplanes], i dont know if laugh for derision or cry for emotion.

    The Italian soldier were poorly armed, except the Navy, and poorly lead. Sometimes they retreat without fight but in general they fought well against a better armed and more numerous enemies.
    Pauci sed semper immites!

  4. #79
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    The book "An Army at Dawn" recounts bitter fighting in the mountains of North Africa between U.S. and Italian enemies. I see if I can find some more on this, but Atkins basically states that the Italian soldier could definitely fight when given proper goals, backed up by proper German support, and given terrain to compensate for their lessor firepower & lack of mobility IIRC...

  5. #80
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    How easy every topic about italian weaponry is quickly turned into a discussion about the real combat value of the italian, tropps, if i was Italian I would be seriously distressed.

  6. #81
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    I'm italian and i'm not distressed. It's a question of pride for me.
    Anyway in general italian tanks are poorly made, in most cases use outdated design concept, they are normally generated from obtuse request, produced in too much small number and last but not least used in the worst way. Italian Army isn't prepared for modern warfare, where mechanical vehicles play a pivotal role, they lack the culture needed for them. In general all Armies that fight in WWII don't understand the tank warfare in deep at the start of war. Also the Wermacht, with his main offensive terrestrial tactic Blitzkried based upon breaktrough of tanks, search a way to transport cavelry to battle field until before the start of WWII tu use the cavelry for rapid assault and fantery transportation.
    Pauci sed semper immites!

  7. #82
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    Burp is right, this is not a question of being Italian or not, I have French is the same thing to criticize my country. The lack of preparation for war was obvious from our side. We had some good tanks and good aircraft, but production did not follow. the commandment was made by senior officers who had the first World War and were unable to conceive of a war of movement as the Germans had prepared. Our soldiers are as brave as the Italians, although Souvant controlled by officers and officers of values. But what to do against an enemy who had based his tactics on a rapid movement, supported by tanks may be less able to startup the French tanks, but commanded by generals of values.
    They are those who put their country in this situation should be ashamed.
    Regarding transport, we must know that all the armies present at the start of the conflict, seul the British army was 100% mechanical, even though the armed German was very well equipped, possessed hyppomobiles battalions.
    Friendly Fred
    He who asks a question remains ignorant five minutes, who does not ask remains ignorant of his life.

  8. #83
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    Well the germans were actually the most horse dependant army of the WW2 specially in the east. Thanks for the reply guys.


  9. #84
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    Something has been bugging me for a while now. I had a book 'Wavells Offensive' which I can not find now. One of the pics in it of I believe Italian Artillery in Tobruk or Bardia showed muzzle loaders in sangers. The caption said that the assumption was the guns were just decoys but rammers and buckets were on the walls and the sangers were constructed to enable the guns to be serviced.

    Does anyone have any information on these weapons, who would have used them (Italian or local troops), were they dragged out as a desperate measure/decoys/on a units equipment table. Type of ammunition they may have had.

    They seemed strange on a battlefield, even one in a theater that used lots of obsolete and obsolescent equipment.

  10. #85
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by leccy View Post
    Something has been bugging me for a while now. I had a book 'Wavells Offensive' which I can not find now. One of the pics in it of I believe Italian Artillery in Tobruk or Bardia showed muzzle loaders in sangers. The caption said that the assumption was the guns were just decoys but rammers and buckets were on the walls and the sangers were constructed to enable the guns to be serviced.

    Does anyone have any information on these weapons, who would have used them (Italian or local troops), were they dragged out as a desperate measure/decoys/on a units equipment table. Type of ammunition they may have had.

    They seemed strange on a battlefield, even one in a theater that used lots of obsolete and obsolescent equipment.
    You mean this one ?



    I dont know what is the name of it, but is a breech loader I had seen this gun in newsreels finnish service in Karelia 1940, Aniway yes is obsolete no recoil absorbing mechanism at all.

  11. #86
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    Thanks Panzerknacker

    That's the pic, looked for along time many years ago about further info and never found anything out about these weapons.

    Just one of those images that bugs you because it seems so out of place.

  12. #87
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    Well probably is a decoy as you say, it was a XIX century weapon so honestly I dont think was actually fired by the italians. Is true that some of their weapons, specially the Breda MG looked like 1890 guns in spite of being newly built.

    Here you see some of the field artillery manufactured in that period, this is a 1939 newsreel showing inside Ansaldo works in Genoa.

    http://www.archivioluce.com/archivio...alse&section=/

  13. #88
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    To answer your interrogation, here is a picture that sent me Kuno Gross, who shows a decoy used by the Italians at Tobruk. All the belligerents have used decoys.
    Friendly fred

    z-Tobruk-1000[1]..JPG
    He who asks a question remains ignorant five minutes, who does not ask remains ignorant of his life.

  14. #89
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    After doing a little search on google images I found the pic at Bardia again along with one with Rommel inspecting some of these guns.

    They were identified as a Cannone da 149/35 and in use with the Italian forces (around 900 pieces)
    A bit further searching and I found a 3d rendering site that had a pic of a very similar looking weapon identified as a Cannon Obice 149/12 Modello 14 also used during WW2

  15. #90
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    Default Re: Italian Artillery and Anti-Tank Weapons

    fredl109

    That pic looks like a Fiat 3000 (Italian copy/version of a Renault FT17) which was used by the Italian forces in WW2


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