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Thread: The Boulton Paul Defiant

  1. #16
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    I dont deny the achievement of the defiant in the night fighting role.

    But the question remarked in the Putnam book remain unaswered, How, when ? 17 BF-109 shot downs and no losses by the Defiants, very doubtful.

    In the day, against fighters, the Defiant was useless]
    You say so.

    Admittedly their Jazz music planes lacked the turret, but at the time of constrution, the planes needed to be built using existing designs

    The reason for a fixed mount was simple, the germans crafts used cannons much more bulky than a simple MG. The gun were aimed using all the aircraft that shows to be good in others way, the defensive gunners were less able to spot an then to shot a fighter with that angle of aproach.


  2. #17
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    Panzerknacker, the answer is there.

    Early on, particularly over Dunkirk, the Luftwaffe pilots mistook Defiants for Hurricanes. It is that simple.

    The 109 approaches on the Hurricanes vulnerable "six", lines up for the kill, the Hurricane manouvres but doesn't escape... suddenly the windscreen shatters and 4 lances of tracer/bullets rip in to the 109.... end of.

    Until this mistake was realised and rectified, ie the Defiants were recognised for what they were, they would have had very much the upper hand.
    If you post idiocy, don't get upset if you are seen as an idiot.... I don't.

    Here endth the lesson.




    Have you seen any combat?

    Seen a little on TV.

    You talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?



  3. #18
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    The 109 approaches on the Hurricanes vulnerable "six", lines up for the kill, the Hurricane manouvres but doesn't escape... suddenly the windscreen shatters and 4 lances of tracer/bullets rip in to the 109.... end of.
    And I guess that this facts were repeated 17 times .....

  4. #19
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    Ah, but darwin is in action here.

    Of the 17 pilots shot down, who among them would tell their comrades? That would be for their wingmen, but again, did they see it and did they survive to tell? This is the sort of thing that would hve to be passed on during the debrief rather than a radio call mid air.

    And of course, the statistics you refer to may have taken months even years to assemble and conclude. During this time, in the actual fighting, would even the RAF have known the number? Would the Germans have all came from one unit? Or several, maybe even 17 , communications weren't what they are today, with black boxes and gun "film" able to be passed by internet for examination. It may have taken quite some time for the information to be passed.

    Did they even know the Defiant was in operation in those areas? There is record of them being mistaken for Hurricanes, why? THey do look similar, and Hurricanes were by far the more common fighter in the air. Although the Spitfire, tends to take more of the honours.

    Like I say, I can't deny nor confirm such numbers.
    Last edited by 1000ydstare; 03-11-2007 at 05:10 PM.
    If you post idiocy, don't get upset if you are seen as an idiot.... I don't.

    Here endth the lesson.




    Have you seen any combat?

    Seen a little on TV.

    You talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?



  5. #20
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    No idea what you mean with Darwin but the rest of your post stand correct. Only a note, the Defiant did no carry guncam.

    Probably those are 17 Luftwaffe aircraft claimed as destroyed, and not of a single type.

    The german pilots sometimes claimed that they had destroy a "spitfire" when they actually brought down a Hurricane.





  6. #21
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    There is that, with no proof pilots could claim anything, although you would be amazed at the, shall we say, disbelief shown towards pilots who couldn't back up there claims.

    Jammed gun cameras very often resulted in a pilot getting "nil points" on his tally, even if he had shot down 10 fighters!!!! Unless another pilot backed him up, worse were kills that were not recorded ie damage that later saw the aircraft crash - not on film, not on tally. I think only one pilot was awarded two kills in the enemy fighter crashing in to a enemy bomber sceanrio, because several people saw it.

    Gun film was mainly for id and int purposes, I think. It is generally believed that counts are often wildly wrong. Even the Red Baron of WW1 can only be credited with 73 definite kills (recovered wreckage on his side of the battlefield/eyewitness testimony from the victims) of his claimed 80!!!

    17 could well be wrong, but at the same time, could be very accurate. Fog of War and all that.

    Not too mention 109s could be confused with 190s, Stukas and 110s might be a bit harder to confuse.
    Last edited by 1000ydstare; 03-11-2007 at 05:42 PM.
    If you post idiocy, don't get upset if you are seen as an idiot.... I don't.

    Here endth the lesson.




    Have you seen any combat?

    Seen a little on TV.

    You talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?



  7. #22
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    Default Re: The Boulton Paul Defiant

    Video of the Defiant, prototype and manufacturing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4OLe9Ujzb0

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