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Thread: Dunkirk. The reasons for "miraculous escape".

  1. #1
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    Default Dunkirk. The reasons for "miraculous escape".

    Hello!

    I do not know much about the situation in Dunkirk, but I read somewhere that Hitler let Allied forces to escape on purpose. The german land forces were ordered to halt the attack. And this order was transmited on open unencripted radi ochannel.

    The reason is that Hitler hoped to force Britain to make deal with Germany and he did not want to put UK in to position where they would have lost face.
    In fact this "miraculous escape" boosted people moral a lot in UK.

    Any facts you can share with me and others?


    Best regards
    Igor Korenev
    Last edited by Egorka; 01-08-2007 at 07:36 AM. Reason: misspelling

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    Yes i heared the point that Hitler simply let Britains evacuated from Dunkirk in 1940.
    In that early period war was n't so total and unhuman like it was later. As we know Britain declaredthe war to the Germany in september 1939, however Britains absolutly nothing did for the poles. It was "strange" war.
    Perhaps in may 1940 it was the "good" gesture of Hitler for the Britains and world social oppinion.
    Cheers.

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

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    Some interesting point' guy's.
    I must be honest and say that this is the first time i have heard about Dunkirk from this angle.



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    Making alliance with England was something Hitler hinted/talked about several times.

    It would have been pretty good combination for a world domination attempt: Royal Navy, German ground forces (Wehrmacht+Waffen-SS), RAF and Luftwaffe.


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    Yeah, imagine how that would of changed the course of history.



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    Quote Originally Posted by alephh View Post
    It would have been pretty good combination for a world domination attempt: Royal Navy, German ground forces (Wehrmacht+Waffen-SS), RAF and Luftwaffe.
    Yea it would be the brilliant alliance against ......... jews and USSR.
    Just imagine guys, Hitler could the Hero of western civilization, Aushwitz would be called as therapeutic- working sanatorium
    Oh this stupid history, everything could be changed ))))))))))))))

    P.S. just kidding ....
    Cheers.

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

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    Good humour Chevan.
    I know we joke about it; but just imagine..........



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    Quote Originally Posted by VonWeyer View Post
    Good humour Chevan.
    I know we joke about it; but just imagine..........
    I have already imagine it enough
    I will better save my mind

    "I decide who is a Jew and who is an Aryan "- Hermann Goering

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    Nothing to do with the fact that their Panzers were out of fuel, the rest of their troops were a hell of a long way behind and the part of the BEF trapped at Dunkirk was stronger than the attacking forces then?
    That's rather like the way some people keep trying to make out that the Bismarck being scuttled rather than sunk by the RN somehow makes it being parked on the floor of the North Atlantic some sort of German victory.
    I have neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent and the merely unfortunate - Curtis E LeMay

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    Here is an article I found to be very interesting. Especially because it is reffering to Liddell Hart's oppinion.

    http://www.virtuemag.org/articles/hi...at-dunkirk-why

    And here is a quote from the article:
    “Hitler was in a very good humor, he admitted that the course of the campaign had been ‘a decided miracle,’ and gave us his opinion that the war would be finished in six weeks. After that he wished to conclude a reasonable peace with France, and then the way would be free for an agreement with Britain.

    He then astonished us by speaking with admiration of the British Empire, of the necessity for its existence, and of the civilization that Britain had brought into the world. He remarked, with a shrug of the shoulders, that the creation of its Empire had been achieved by means that were often harsh, but ‘where there is planing, there are shavings flying.’ He compared the British Empire with the Catholic Church, saying they were both essential elements of stability in the world. He said that all he wanted from Britain was that she should acknowledge Germany’s position on the Continent. The return of Germany’s lost colonies would be desirable but not essential, and he would even offer to support Britain with troops if she should be involved in any difficulties anywhere. He remarked that the colonies were primarily a matter of prestige, since they could not be held in war, and few Germans could settle in the tropics.

    “He concluded by saying that his aim was to make peace with Britain on a basis that she would regard as compatible with her honor to accept.”

    An incredible tale, and yet, it fits with the admiration Hitler expressed for Britain in Mein Kampf. Hitler offered peace to the British twice during World War 2, and also, according to Liddell Hart, displayed uncharacteristic timidity in planning an invasion of England, once Churchill made it plain his nation would not agree for peace. A strange attitude for a leader to have in a war, true, but then, Hitler was a strange man with strange ideas, and a very complex personality.
    General Blumentritt’s tale is confirmed by Leon Degrelle, of the Belgian Waffen-SS, who Hitler greatly admired, and occasionally confided in. During one discussion with his Fuhrer, Degrelle states: “We talked about England. I asked him bluntly: “Why on earth didn’t you finish the British off at Dunkirk? Everyone knew you could have wiped them out.” He answered: “Yes, I withheld my troops and let the British escape back to England. The humiliation of such a defeat would have made it difficult to try for peace with them afterwards.”

    Some may protest Degrelle’s testimony, since he was one of the very few who attempted to defend Hitler at all after the war. But Liddell Hart argues that men like Blumentritt had no plausible reason to invent such a story, and in fact would have impressed their conquerors more by portraying themselves as the ones who attempted to preserve British security and survival. Instead, they told the story that the generals wanted to crush the British for good, and end the war, while Hitler’s dithering cost them a great, perhaps decisive, victory. If this is true, it certainly calls into question the idea that Hitler intended to conquer the whole world. I have argued, and the evidence here, from Hitler’s own mouth, seems to confirm that his goal was to establish German hegemony on the continent of Europe, and leave themselves free from outside (particularly British) interference. But each person has their own ideas on this subject. The Dunkirk story lends important new evidence to the discussion.
    I guess there were several reasons for attack halt. Just like there several reasons for dropping A-bombs. Twice!


    Best regards
    Igor Korenev

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    An interesting article. Thanx.



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    to pdf27:
    I do not know about making Bismark affair in to german victory, but Dunkirk was havily described as UK's victory ann hense notion of "Dunkirk spirit". And this is definately a propaganda move.

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    Of course the Dunkirk Spirit was a propaganda move. However, Britain would have had to come to an arrangement without the men saved at Dunkirk. It was probably Germany's biggest mistake to let these men go for even if they were unarmed they constituted a large force.

    So in fact Hitler actually had a lot more chance taking Britain out of the war if he had pressed home the attack. He would have known this at the time as he was Mad but wasnt totally gone by 1940. So saying that the BEF was allowed to escape is just wrong.

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    Spot on Firefly. I agree.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Egorka View Post
    Hello!

    I do not know much about the situation in Dunkirk, but I read somewhere that Hitler let Allied forces to escape on purpose. The german land forces were ordered to halt the attack. And this order was transmited on open unencripted radi ochannel.

    The reason is that Hitler hoped to force Britain to make deal with Germany and he did not want to put UK in to position where they would have lost face.
    In fact this "miraculous escape" boosted people moral a lot in UK.

    Any facts you can share with me and others?


    Best regards
    Igor Korenev
    Its complete nonsense.

    First of all, lets get rid of the greatest part of the myth, Hitler didn't order the panzers to halt.
    The order was issued by the Army Group Commander in charge of that sector, General Von Rundstedt. Hitler merely confirmed the order when Rundstedt told him the reasoning behind it afterwards
    Rundstedt was concerned about the state of the ground around Dunkirk, he didn't consider it suitable for panzers. His panzer forces were also badly in need of rest and repair.
    Here's a quote that shows his thinking
    "A critical time in the attack came just as my forces reached the channel. It was caused by the British counter-attack at Arras … for a short time it was feared that our armoured divisions could be cut off before the infantry divisions could come up to support them"
    The attack at Arras had put enough doubt in Rundstedt's mind to cause him to play safe as his spear-head units headed towards Dunkirk.

    It is also forgotten that after only two days of rest and repair they were ordered to continue the attack on the Dunkirk position, but by then the British and French had formed a strong defensive perimeter, and they managed to hold off the attacking German forces.

    Also at around this time, the French forces further south were putting up a dogged resistance to the German forces, and this caused the German High Command to concentrate their attention on that, instead of the British and French forces 'trapped' at Dunkirk.

    When they finally took Dunkirk, the Germans were totally stunned when they realised just how many Allied troops had escaped.
    Last edited by redcoat; 01-09-2007 at 08:55 AM.

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