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Thread: Bell P-39 Airacobra & P-63 Kingcobra.

  1. #16
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    Panzerknacker, Chevan, Nick,

    Thanks for the feedback guys - interesting information.

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  2. #17
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    Default Bell P-39 airacobra & p-63 Kingcobra.

    I open this topic for talk about this polemic Fighters in every teather of operations.



  3. #18
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    This is my page 1 - missing from this thread - apparently not copied from other thread when this thread was created.

    Can you adjust this Panzerknacker? Thanks.

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    Is done, check the page 1.



  5. #20
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    Thanks Panzerknacker,

    Nice pic. Well, I'm heading out for the evening. Happy New Year.

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  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Eller View Post
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    I wonder how accurate the following quotes are?
    I believe they are accurate. It always used to be assumed that the P-39 was used by the Soviets for ground attack, but in recent years more info coming out of Russia has corrected that. Without AP ammo, the 37mm gun would have had a negligible effect on tanks.

    Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

  7. #22
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    The big differences are in the cartrigde case.

    Teorically the AP M4 round (37x145R) could penetrate 25 mm vertical plate at 300 meters. That makes an antitank ?

    Maybe yes maybe not:

    Just some examples of armor:

    Pz II ausf f : 35 mm front 15 mm side.

    Pz III ausf H/J 50 mm front 30 mm sides.

    Pz IV ausf G 80 mm front, 30 mm sides.

    Pz V panther 80/100 mm front, 40 mm sides.

    Pz VI B Tiger 1, 100 mm front 80 mm sides.


    That demonstrate that it have some posibilities against the thinner armor in the lighter vehicles but the the M-80 round was a very simple one, a solid piece of steel with tracer, no explosive charge or balistic cap. the initial speed was about 609 m/s....compare that with the larger NS-37 round, 900 m/s.

    M4 ammo, note the M-80 AP.




    Now the longer bottlenecked russian round, 37x195 mm.




    The NS-37 was put in some single engines aircraft like the Yak-9, Lagg-3 and Yak-3 that made those double use aircraft (air-to-air and air-to-ground) but because the soviet aicraft were made mostly of wood they have not the strenght and durability of the cobra, also cannot carry as much armor protection and the radio equipmente was inferior, maybe that make the Airacobra so loved in the USSR.



    ]



    And Happy new year BTW.

  8. #23
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    Thanks for the feedback Tony.

    I must say that you have a very impressive website.

    http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm
    The USA did fit one 37 mm gun to its aircraft - the M4. However, this fired low-powered 37x145R ammunition and was not very effective against tanks, being intended for air combat. Much more impressive was the M9, which was a belt-fed development of the Army's M1 long-recoil AA gun and fired powerful 37x223SR cartridges. Special AP loadings were developed for this gun but it was never used in action.
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    Thanks for the charts, pics and information Panzerknacker. Very interesting.

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  9. #24
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    Keep in mind, we're also talking about top shots on the thinner turrets and engine compartments. In any case, the P-39/63 would have been very effective against soft skinned vehicles and horse drawn carts...

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    The top armor in the Panzer moves around 15 to 40 mm in the heaviest, so chances are increased.


  11. #26
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    P-39 of the USAAF in the Mediterranean TO. I wonder how was the killing ratio of this plane against the Bf-109 and /or the Vichy French Forces, if any.





  12. #27
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    P-39D escorting C-47 over New Guinea, 1943 (P-39 in action / Squadron Signal)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #28
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    Great pic.



    What you do in life, echoes in eternity!!!

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post
    The top armor in the Panzer moves around 15 to 40 mm in the heaviest, so chances are increased.
    True, but you have to remember that the striking angle is not favourable. Fighter-bombers didn't usually attack ground targets at more than about a 30 degree angle, which means that the penetration of AP rounds against horizontal armour would be substantially reduced to a small fraction of their optimum figure.

    Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

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    Indeed, other issue is that there is not sureness about the provition of the M80 round to Russia, some sources say did not.

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