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Thread: Italian tanks and AFVs.

  1. #16
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    No problemo.




    M-15/42:

    This tank can be regarded as a product improvement of the M 14/41 though external resemblence is close. The tank is slightly longer and can be distinguished from earlier models by the lack of a crew hatch on the left side and the appearance of a crew hatch on the right.




    The gun was longer, the turret was electrically traversed, speed improved, improved armor, and in general, a better ride.




    82 of these tanks were built in 1943 before the war ended for Italy, but, these units did see action against the Germans. The rebuilt Ariete Division, located in Italy, took part in the Italian attempt to deny Rome to the Germans between 8 and 10 September 1943. The M.15s captured by the Germans were put to good use by their new owners.

  2. #17
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    The M15/42 Tank was an Italian World War II 15 ton tank first built in January 1943. Some 90 vehicles were built befor the Italian surrender in September 1943 and in connection to that event they were used in battle against the Germans by the Ariete armored division in Rome. After that point they were confiscated and used by the Germans who also built another 28 M15/42 tanks. Armament was once 47 mm main gun and for 8 mm Breda 38 machine guns.



    GENERAL CHARACTERISTICS
    crew:4
    length:4.92 m
    width:2.2 m
    height2.4 m
    weight:14.37 tonnes
    ARMOUR AND ARMAMENT
    armour:42mm
    main armament 47 mm L/40 gun 111 rounds
    secondary armament: 4x8 mm Breda 38 machine guns
    MOBILITY
    power plant: petrol 145 hp
    suspension: vertical volute spring
    road speed: 35km/h
    range: 200km
    Good Conduct Medal
    "The Russian colossus...has been underestimated by us...whenever a dozen divisions are destroyed the Russians replace them with another dozen."
    General Franz Halder-Army Chief of Staff-August 1941

  3. #18
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    Thank G.S, the 40 calibres gun of this tank had higher muzzle speed that the used in the M-13s.


  4. #19
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    Carro Armato Celere Sahariano.



    Being impressed with the British cruiser tanks, the Italians attempted to make a copy for use in North Africa. The Carro Armato Celere Sahariano ( Fast Saharian tank) was clearly inspired by the Crusader, it had sloped armor and the 47 mm high velocity gun installed in a M-14/41 modified turret.



    The hull employed a torsion bar suspension for improved cross country abilities. The tank can reach 60 km/h powered by a 270 hp Fiat diesel engine.



    The war in ended before this AFV could be put on service and the project was cancelled. A 75mm main gun was proposed for production models.


  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker View Post
    Carro Armato L3 Light Tank



    An experimental model produced by Fiat Ansaldo in 1937 on a chassis of a L.3 tankette. It had a 20mm Breda automatic cannon and an 8mm MG located in the turret much like the German Panzer II. This tank was never ordered into production.
    I must say that your information is not correct. This AFV was produced in Spain, in the Sestao Naval Yards, during 1937. The Spanish Army accepted the prototype, but problems with the manufacture of armoured steel plates stopped this proyect. Italian advisors were present during the design phase, ant it is inspired both by the L33 and the Pz I.
    Last edited by Natxo; 03-22-2007 at 05:27 AM.

  6. #21
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    Are you sure ? Was was the spanish name of this.

  7. #22
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    The name was CCI Tipo 1937. CCI stands for "Carro de Combate de Infantería", translated as infantry tank. It´s necessary to understand that for the spanish military the BT-5 used by the Republican Army was a heavy tank.
    The tank was created thinking in the L3´s hull and the Pz I´s turret. It was intended to be protected only against 7,92mm ammunition, machine gun fire.
    I can tell you that the buildings at the picture are from the Sestao Naval Yards.

  8. #23
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    OK, gracias por aclararlo, lo que habia visto antes era unos Pz 1 con torre equipada con cañon Breda de 20mm.


  9. #24
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    Has anyone seen the film "The Lion of the Desert" about the Italian invasion and occupation of Libya?

    The central Italian general, whose name I forget, makes the claim that he is "the first to put tanks in the desert" (circa the late 1920s or early thirties)...

    Is this true?

  10. #25
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    Unless the british had deployed some armor in WW1 in his colonies, I believe that this statement is probably truth.

  11. #26
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    Probably true.

    The RAF put Armoured Cars in to the desert in the 20's but I don't know about tanks.

    The history of No 3 (Field) Squadron Royal Air Force Regiment dates back to the inter-war years, before the formation of the Royal Air Force Regiment itself. It was Lord Trenchard's philosophy in the 1920s that, to support light bombers in their policing of large areas in the Middle East, Armoured Car Companies should be formed, manned by Royal Air Force officers and airmen and under Royal Air Force control. No 3 Armoured Car Company was formed on 3 November 1922 at Basra and served in eastern Iraq. The Company conducted operations both on its own and in co-operation with aircraft against disaffected Kurdish tribes over a wide area of southern and eastern Iraq. On 1 April 1925 the Company was disbanded and its personnel and vehicles were distributed among the remaining Armoured Car Companies.
    They drove around in Rolls Royces....




    Honest, they are Rolls Royces.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls_Royce_Armoured_Car

    http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafaldergrove/...sqnhistory.cfm

    Tanks were certainly seen by the British as only any good for World War 1 type offensives. Many didn't wish to see them replace the Cavalry (in all armies). The Armoured cars above would probably have been more reliable and faster in the desert.

    An outstanding achievement of the British Army was the creation of the Experimental Mechanised Force in the late 1920s. This was a small Brigade-sized unit developed to field-test the use of tanks and other vehicles. The unit pioneered the extensive use of radio to control widely-separated small units. The unit was short-lived, however.
    Anyone like to guess what this unit inspired? Yep, thats right, the Blitzkreig was pioneered by the British and discarded, the Germans perfected it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_(1919-1939)
    Last edited by 1000ydstare; 03-25-2007 at 08:20 AM.
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    Here endth the lesson.




    Have you seen any combat?

    Seen a little on TV.

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  12. #27
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    I am pretty sure the Italians may have been, if the film is accurate, unless the British used them in Iraq inthe 1920s.

    The Royal Tank Regiment, does not have any battle honours for the prewar period, so unless htey were used by other units...

    I ahve a feeling htough that they used the cars as above. Lawerence of Arabia was a Tank officer though.
    Last edited by 1000ydstare; 03-25-2007 at 08:13 AM.
    If you post idiocy, don't get upset if you are seen as an idiot.... I don't.

    Here endth the lesson.




    Have you seen any combat?

    Seen a little on TV.

    You talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?



  13. #28
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    The Italians were the first to do it with tanks but before them the french were testing armoured vehicles there
    Bog i hrvati tko nije neka pati!!!!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strina-Croatia View Post
    The Italians were the first to do it with tanks but before them the french were testing armoured vehicles there
    Yes this is true because the French was the first nation to build a tank. (which was manuafactured in World War 1) After World War 1 the French were very interested in making a great tank that would give them the advantage on the battle field. While they were taking interest in their tanks the Italians were already in great process in their future tank population in World War 2. (Italy probably did not make the best tanks in World War 2.) Me personally I did not like the Italian tanks very much, but I like the effort that most Italians had during fights. No matter what tank, they were determined to win the battle. However this statement might have been true only a few times in World War 2.
    Good Conduct Medal
    "The Russian colossus...has been underestimated by us...whenever a dozen divisions are destroyed the Russians replace them with another dozen."
    General Franz Halder-Army Chief of Staff-August 1941

  15. #30
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    ...the French was the first nation to build a tank. (which was manuafactured in World War 1) After World War 1 the French were very interested in making a great tank that would give them the advantage on the battle field. While they were taking interest in their tanks the Italians were already in great process in their future tank population in World War 2. (Italy probably did not make the best tanks in World War 2.)
    I agree that Italian tanks were some of the worst in WW2, but wrt the first tanks I disagree...

    The first tank design was, the Italian, Leonardo DaVinci (although it never got off paper).

    The British were the first to design and develop "water carriers", so named after the cover story of them being tracked water carriers for the Army on the front. This name slipped to "water tanks" and then "tanks". The name becoming official in December 1915 as a cover, and eversince their actual name.

    Little Willie was Britains first succesful prototype and was completed in Sept 1915 (design started in July 1915). The first British tank saw action during the Battle of the Somme on 15 September 1916.

    The first French tank was the Schneider CA1, it started life as a tracked gun tractor (the British had these prior to the Great War as did many farmers and other countries) and thus can not be called a "tank" as such.

    The Schneider Company was a large arms manufacturer in France. Having been given the order to develop heavy artillery tractors, in January 1915 the company sent out its chief designer, Eugène Brillié, to investigate tracked tractors from the American Holt Company, at that time participating in a test programme in England.

    On his return Brillié, who had earlier been involved in designing armoured cars for Spain, convinced the company management to initiate studies on the development of a Tracteur blindé et armé (armoured and armed tractor (essentely and early "tank"), based on the Baby Holt chassis, two of which were ordered. In July 1915 this private programme was combined with an official one for the development of a barbed wire cutter by engineer Jean-Louis Bréton.

    On 9 December 1915, the first chassis was demonstrated to the French Army (3 months after the British).

    One of the onlookers was colonel Jean-Baptiste Eugène Estienne (1860-1936), a man held in very high regard throughout the army for his unmatched technological and tactical expertise. For Estienne the vehicle shown embodied vague concepts about AFVs already growing in his mind. On 12 December he presented to the High Command a plan to form an armoured force, equipped with tracked vehicles.

    This plan met with approbation and a production order of 400 at a price of 56,000 French francs per vehicle was made on 25 February 1916. The first vehicle of the production series was delivered on 5 September. Meanwhile, production had shifted to the SOMUA company.

    As their production numbers were more ambitious, the French lagged behind the British somewhat — it took them more time to build larger factories — deploying their tanks for the first time on 16 April 1917 at Berry-au-Bac during the infamous Nivelle Offensive (7 months after Britain's first operational deployment).

    The first tank versus tank action took place on 24 April 1918 at Villers-Bretonneux, France, when three British Mark IVs met three German A7Vs taking part in an attack with infantry incidentally met three Mark IVs (two Female machine gun tanks and one Male with 6 pounder guns) near Villers-Bretonneux. During the battle tanks on both sides were damaged. According to the lead tank commander, 2nd Lt Frank Mitchell, the machine gun armed Female Mk IVs fell back after being damaged by armor piercing bullets. They were unable to damage the A7Vs with their own machine guns. Mitchell then attacked the lead German tank with the 6 pounders of his own tank and knocked it out. He hit it three times, and killed five of the crew when they bailed out. He then went on to rout some infantry with case shot.

    The two remaining A7Vs in turn withdrew. As Lt. Mitchell's tank withdrew from action, 7 Whippet tanks also engaged the infantry. Four of these were knocked out in the battle, and it is unclear if any of them engaged the retreating German tanks. Lt. Mitchell's tank lost a track towards the end from a mortar shell and was abandoned. The damaged A7V was later recovered by German forces.

    The Medium Mark A Whippet was a British tank of World War I. Intended to complement the slow Mark V tanks by using its relative mobility and speed in exploiting any break in the enemy lines.


    A British whippet (named after one of our Mods )

    For the Germans, the A7V was a tank introduced by Germany in 1918, near the end of World War I. The name probably means Allgemeines Kriegsdepartement 7 Abteilung Verkehrswesen ("General War Department 7, Branch Transportation").

    In German the tank was called Sturmpanzer-Kraftwagen (roughly "assault armoured motor vehicle"). 100 were ordered for the spring of 1918, but only 20 were delivered. They saw action from March to October that year, and were the only tanks produced by Germany in WWI.


    A British Mk 1 Male tank Somme, around 25 September 1916



    A french Schneider CA1. Note the main armament on the front RHS corner. There was no similar armament on the LHS.
    If you post idiocy, don't get upset if you are seen as an idiot.... I don't.

    Here endth the lesson.




    Have you seen any combat?

    Seen a little on TV.

    You talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?



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