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Thread: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    A little bit of contemporary information from US publications

    Japanese Tanks and Tank Tactics 1944

    http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/car...c/number26.pdf

    Japanese Tank and Anti-tank Warfare 1945

    http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/car...c/number34.pdf
    IN the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
    Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise
    An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
    With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes
    At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
    They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    Thread moved back to 'Japanese military'.
    "I just ran out of ammo. I will ram this one. Good bye, we'll meet in Valhalla." - Major Heinrich Ehrler, April 4, 1945

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    I dont' think the "Shermans would have been hunting in packs as they did in Europe" actually. The reasons are twofold. The Marines used tanks to support their attacks but, against the defensive tactics of the Japanese, they had developed a doctrine of using the tanks purely as infantry support vehicles. Basically, the tanks never advanced without strong infantry support; strong combined arms teams was the preferred attack method.

    The second part of it is the Japanese use of armor. They also used AFV as a support tool for the infantry and, in this role, the Type 3 could have been quite formidable. They would not have been massing into large tank groups and assaulting over open plains as seems to be implied. The tank would more likely be used to fire from covered defensive positions and as a mobile gun platform for any possible counterattacks.

    The wild card that would undue this type of defense is Allied air power, which would own the battlefield during any major confrontations.
    I agree with you comments regarding the Japanese Imperial Army's use of armor for most of the "island hopping campaign" during the Pacific Theater of War. However, there were instances (though very few) of all out tank-versus-tank combat in the Philippines and elsewhere. But it was rare that the terrain favored large scale maneuver of AFV's in mobile battles. The IJA Malaysian Campaign culminating in the fall of Singapore also saw extensive use of Japanese armor, although they had no British tanks to fight, the tanks were still used in mass formations against Commonwealth troops, and almost certainly there would have been tank battles had the British command found the wisdom of using tanks in the jungle.

    More specifically regarding Operation Downfall, it is often stated that the U.S. Army, and possibly the Marines, were looking forward to putting large numbers of tanks on the Tokyo Plane where the terrain very much favored a decisive battle of maneuver. In anticipation of this, the Army began staging even M26 Pershings on Okinawa (later sent to Korea IIRC), which would have been virtually invulnerable to most known and widely issued Japanese antitank weapons at the time and certainly to the guns on the majority of Japanese tanks. Though the Japanese Army was working on a newer generation of tanks to match the Shermans, and even the Pershing, whether they had the industry left to get anywhere the numbers needed is questionable. I do think there would have been tank battles in Japan with the IJA throwing the last of their armor reserve against massed armor had the war gone on into 1946...
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 10-08-2012 at 12:20 PM.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    Quote Originally Posted by leccy View Post
    A little bit of contemporary information from US publications

    Japanese Tanks and Tank Tactics 1944

    http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/car...c/number26.pdf

    Japanese Tank and Anti-tank Warfare 1945

    http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/car...c/number34.pdf

    Excellent links, thanks!

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    I do not know how accurate these figures are but they may shed some light on Japanese tank numbers in various zones.

    THE HISTORY OF BATTLES OF IMPERIAL JAPANESE TANKS PART I

    http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/history.htm

    THE HISTORY OF BATTLES OF IMPERIAL JAPANESE TANKS PART 2

    http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/history2.htm
    IN the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
    Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise
    An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
    With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes
    At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
    They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I agree with you comments regarding the Japanese Imperial Army's use of armor for most of the "island hopping campaign" during the Pacific Theater of War. However, there were instances (though very few) of all out tank-versus-tank combat in the Philippines and elsewhere. But it was rare that the terrain favored large scale maneuver of AFV's in mobile battles. The IJA Malaysian Campaign culminating in the fall of Singapore also saw extensive use of Japanese armor, although they had no British tanks to fight, the tanks were still used in mass formations against Commonwealth troops, and almost certainly there would have been tank battles had the British command found the wisdom of using tanks in the jungle.

    More specifically regarding Operation Downfall, it is often stated that the U.S. Army, and possibly the Marines, were looking forward to putting large numbers of tanks on the Tokyo Plane where the terrain very much favored a decisive battle of maneuver. In anticipation of this, the Army began staging even M26 Pershings on Okinawa (later sent to Korea IIRC), which would have been virtually invulnerable to most known and widely issued Japanese antitank weapons at the time and certainly to the guns on the majority of Japanese tanks. Though the Japanese Army was working on a newer generation of tanks to match the Shermans, and even the Pershing, whether they had the industry left to get anywhere the numbers needed is questionable. I do think there would have been tank battles in Japan with the IJA throwing the last of their armor reserve against massed armor had the war gone on into 1946...
    I'm not saying there wouldn't have been tank vs tank confrontations but I believe that large numbers would have been few and far between. There would have been more smaller confrontations than grand tank battles in spite of the presence of good tank terrain in parts of the island. Especially in light of allied air dominance, the Japanese would have probably tried to keep their armor under cover to maximise it's use. I'm sure the Allied planners would have loved to see a major tank battle on the Tokyo Plain but I'm not certain the Japanese would play into that strategy. Just my thoughts.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    Quite a few of the Japanese armoured units actually counter attacked beaches on D-Day or very soon after in an attempt to stop the landing (much like Rommel wished to do in Normandy).

    A landing on the Home Islands would probably receive as warm a welcome as soon as a unit could be mustered.

    The longer they allowed a build up the less chance they would have to repulse a landing with Allied superiority in most areas.
    IN the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
    Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise
    An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
    With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes
    At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
    They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    Hello to all, if you allow me it to bring my modest contribution to this post, me you will say gentlemen that you forget an essential factor. It is that Japan didn't have the means anymore to produce in mass any vehicle, that he is tank or other, besides they were absolutely has short of fuel. Then the fights foreseen against chariots on the territory of Japan are only speculation. Other non negligible factor, it is that the Japanese people burst of hunger, the production of rice was reduced has nothing and before the bombardment of Hiroshima, it already made nearly one year that there was not sufficient production of rice anymore. Besides, the blockade imposed by the American marine had for effect that more nothing nor left went back to Japan, therefore the repatriation of some remaining chariot units in some islands was impossible to them, of mm the production of steel had fallen to zero, what made absolutely impossible all creation of new projects. And to finish when you look at the type of tank that the Japanese army possessed, you perceive very quickly that it would not have made the weight so much facing the American chariots very same there would have been some fights between tank, thing that I think highly unlikely seen the dilapidation of the Japanese army some 1945.
    Best Regard Fred
    He who asks a question remains ignorant five minutes, who does not ask remains ignorant of his life.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    Very interesting thread. The Type 3 does look like an interesting tank. Type 3 versus Sherman engagements would have been interesting. However, reading through the thread only emphasises for me the hopelessness of the Japanese war effort, at least in terms of pure materiele. This looks like yet another demonstration of the fact that Japan could only have defeated the US if the latter failed in morale or willpower. Japan made a fundamental miscalculation on this point at the outset of the war, coloured by its own ideological imperatives and a misapprehension of US national ideology, aside altogether from its economic capacity. Best regards, JR.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    Bumping!

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    What could the Japanese armour do opposing a beach landing.. except provide convenient targets for Naval fire..

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    Quote Originally Posted by J.A.W. View Post
    What could the German Tiger tanks do opposing a beach landing.. except provide convenient targets for Naval fire..
    Fixed...

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu

    Well, I guess if it came to duking it out with a cheeky DD Skipper who poked his nose in too close, an 88mm
    could do a bit of damage.. but against Big-As BBs, absolutely..no chance..

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