Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread and continues to do so. This has been for me a very informative and interesting thread. I have to admit that Hedey Lamar and Marlene do something for me (not as they are now though!).
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread and continues to do so. This has been for me a very informative and interesting thread. I have to admit that Hedey Lamar and Marlene do something for me (not as they are now though!).
Hedy Lamarr (November 9, 1913 – January 19, 2000) was an actress and communications technology innovator. She was known for her great beauty on camera, and also for co-inventing the first form of spread spectrum, a key to modern wireless communication.
Lamarr was born Hedwig Eva Maria Kiesler to a Jewish family in Vienna, Austria, on November 9, 1913, and died in 2000 in Altamonte Springs, Florida (near Orlando, Orange County, Florida) of natural causes at the age of 86.
While married to her first husband, Friedrich Mandl, aka Fritz Mandl, an arms manufacturer, she socialized with Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini. She also became educated technically in his trade. Mandl was obsessed with his wife and never let her out of his sight. She hated him and his Nazi friends and finally escaped to London by drugging him and the French maid he had hired to spy on her. Ironically, Mandl was from a Jewish background. Whether the Nazis ever knew about Mandl's and Lamarr's Jewish origins has been debated by historians; Friedrich Mandl came from an extremely assimilated family and it appears that he overtly hid his Jewish origins, and he converted to Christianity under evident pressure. Many also say that Lamarr's co-invention of spread spectrum as a potential World War II military application was sparked by her desire to do anything in her power to help see Nazism defeated.
She met Louis B. Mayer in London. He hired her and changed her name to Hedy Lamarr, the surname in homage to a famously beautiful film star of the silent era, Barbara LaMarr, who had died of a drug overdose in 1926. She had already appeared in several European films, including Ecstasy (1933), in which she played a love-hungry young wife of an indifferent old husband. Closeups of her face in passion, and long shots of her running nude through the woods, gave the film notoriety. She also gained notoriety as one of the first actresses to bare her breasts in a major film. Mandl bought up as many copies of the film as he could possibly find, as he objected to her nudity, as well as "the expression on her face."
In Hollywood, she appeared in many films, usually cast as glamorous and seductive, including Algiers (1938), White Cargo, and Tortilla Flat (both 1942), based on the novel by John Steinbeck. In 1941 she was cast alongside two other Hollywood beauties Lana Turner and Judy Garland in a musical extravaganza Ziegfeld Girl (1941), Her biggest success came in Cecil B. DeMille's Samson and Delilah (1949) with Victor Mature as the Biblical strongman. Unfortunately, she was more used for her stunning exotic beauty than her ability as an actress.
Lamarr became a naturalized citizen of the United States on April 10, 1953.
Above quoted from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Lamarr
Female Inventors - Hedy Lamarr
Beauty and Brains.
Last edited by George Eller; 07-04-2006 at 01:07 PM.
First of all she wear the EK2 and Afrika Korps cuff titles, no woman won the RK the highest award a women receive was the EK1, she is the DRK nurse Ilse Schulz.Originally Posted by Lancer44
Originally Posted by George Eller
My pleasure as always. I hope you and other friends will also enjoy the next female personality... Goebbels mistress Lida Baarova.
LIDA BAAROVÁ, who has died in 2000, aged 90, was a Czech film star greatly admired by Dr Josef Goebbels, the Nazi Minister of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda.
They met at a party in 1934, the year before her first German film Barcarole made her a household name in Germany. Lida Baarová certainly suited Goebbels, who became obsessed with her. "He told me he loved me time and again," she recalled 60 years later, "and I felt his eyes burning into my back every time we were in the same room together." The Fuhrer too, she vouchsafed, was given to staring mutely in her direction; indeed, when he visited her film studio he seemed to her to be mesmerised. Shortly afterwards he invited her to tea.
She arrived at the wheel of her BMW, which (as she remembered) Hitler seemed to consider rather too liberated. On this occasion, however, he found his tongue to the extent of telling her that she reminded him of Gerri Raubel who, he encouragingly explained, had committed suicide on his account. Another time, Hitler told her that she should become a citizen of the Reich: "You could do well for yourself," he promised. But Lida Baarová remained immune to these blandishments, telling him that she preferred to remain a Czech. The tea invitations ceased.
Dr Goebbels's fires, however, burned ever fiercer. He lived only three doors along from the house on Lake Wannsee which Lida Baarová shared with Gustav Froehlich, her co-star in Barcarole. Though Lida Baarová always emphasised the innocence of her relations with Goebbels - "why would I be interested in a 36-year-old father of five when I was a 20-year-old beautiful woman with men falling at my feet?" - somehow Froehlich was never convinced.
Hermann Goring placed a wiretap on Lida Baarová's telephone, and enjoyed spreading scandalous stories about her and Goebbels in the highest Nazi circles. Himmler also liked to tell how there were lines of women waiting to swear how Goebbels had coerced them: "I've turned the choicest statements over to the Fuhrer." Goebbels himself felt the necessity to tell his wife Magda about his infatuation. Magda complained to Emmy Goring that her husband was "the devil incarnate". But she did not stop there, inviting Lida Baarová round to accuse her to her face of having an affair with her husband. "Don't worry," Lida Baarová returned, "I'm not interested in him."
Magda Goebbels was no more convinced than Gustav Froehlich had been, and in 1938 complained about her husband to the Fuhrer, who ordered Goebbels never to see Lida Baarová again. Goebbels's lust was strong, but his devotion to the Fuhrer still stronger. He sighed as a lover; he obeyed as a Propaganda Minister.
Meanwhile, the jealous Gustav Froehlich was rumoured to have struck Goebbels in the face, and challenged him to a duel. Hitler, furious at the scandal, banned Lida Baarová's films and expelled her from Berlin. Wisely, she escaped to Prague.
There are numerous versions and rumours about Baarova-Goebbels affair.
Here article by Peter Conradi, Times, October 31, 2000
Goebbels mistress tells tales from the grave
By Peter Conradi
"THEIRS was one of the most dramatic and dangerous love affairs of the Third Reich. A glamorous Czech actress who became Josef Goebbels's mistress and fled Germany after his wife denounced them to Hitler has described her turbulent relationship with the Nazi propaganda chief for the first time.
In her autobiography, The Sweet Bitterness of My Life, to be published posthumously in Germany next month, Lida Baarova writes of life in the Nazi upper echelons, where elegantly dressed ministers mingled with the film world elite.
The actress, who died alone in poverty in November aged 86, reveals that Goebbels's wife, Magda, proposed a ménage à trois to save her marriage but Hitler ordered an end to the two-year affair on the grounds that it could damage the Nazis' image as guardians of traditional family values.
It was Hitler who first fell for Baarova, then 20, during a visit in 1934 to a film set in Berlin. Three days later she was summoned to tea at the chancellery. He said she reminded him of somebody both "beautiful and tragic" in his life. To her horror, she later realised this was Hitler's former lover and half-niece, Angela Raubal, who was found dead in her Munich flat in 1931, aged 23, after shooting herself in the heart with a pistol.
Several more meetings followed, despite the protests of Gustav Fröhlich, a jealous actor with whom Baarova was living. But the Führer did not press himself on her.
She and Goebbels first met in 1936 during the Berlin Olympics in the city's opulent Schwanenwerder suburb, where Goebbels had rented a villa near Fröhlich's. Baarova was attracted immediately.
"His voice seemed to go straight into me," she said. "I felt a light tingling in my back, as if his words were trying to stroke my body."
There were other meetings on Goebbels's yacht Baldur, and he invited her to hear him speak at a Nazi congress. He promised to touch his face with a white handkerchief during the speech as a sign of his devotion.
Panicking, Baarova decided to leave town. But as her train waited at the station, a messenger arrived with roses and the minister's picture. "He was a master of the hunt, whom no-body and nothing could escape," she said.
For months Goebbels pursued her relentlessly, inviting her for trips in his chauffeur-driven limousine or visits to his log cabin on the shores of Lake Lanke outside Berlin.
Although their relationship was platonic for a long time, she tried to hide it from Fröhlich. When Goebbels rang he left messages as Herr Müller and hung up if the actor answered. One winter evening in the cabin, however, before a blazing fire he kissed her for the first time, saying: "I have never in my life been so in-flamed with love for a woman."
They met whenever he could get away from his wife. Baarova recalled his mood swings dramatically. Sometimes he amused her with Hitler impressions, at others he expressed doubts about Nazi ideology.
Rumours of their relationship spread after Goebbels bailed out one of Baarova's films. Then Fröhlich arrived home to find them on the road to the villa. He berated Goebbels and left Baarova soon afterwards.
His impertinence did not go unpunished. Goebbels later took revenge by removing his exemption from military service and sending him to war.
In the autumn of 1938, however, Goebbels had telephoned Baarova, saying he had confessed to his wife, and wanted the two women to meet. Magda Goebbels was distraught when they were introduced, and suggested sharing her husband.
"I am the mother of his children, I am only interested in this house in which we live," she said. "What happens outside does not concern me. But you must promise me one thing: you must not have a child by him."
Goebbels appeared with gifts of jewellery for both women as if to cement the love triangle. But Magda told Hitler and Goebbels was summoned to the Führer. "My wife is a devil," he told Baarova.
Early the next morning he rang again, weeping. Hitler had refused his request for a divorce and forbidden him to see her. "I love you, Liduschka," he said. "I cannot live without you."
The propaganda machine swung into gear. Newspapers published pictures of the Goebbels family, and Goebbels rehabilitated himself with Hitler by orchestrating Kristallnacht, an orgy of violence in November 1938 when Jewish property across Germany was destroyed.
Baarova was called to a police station and told she was barred from appearing in films or plays and even from attending social functions. She was pursued by the Gestapo, who organised hecklers to shout "Whore", when she defiantly attended the premiere of her film, Der Spieler (The Player).
Baarova returned to Prague, disobeying an order from Hitler's adjutant to remain in Germany. She was on a Nazi blacklist, however, and it became more difficult for her to work. In 1942 she moved to Italy and resumed her career.
She saw Goebbels one last time at the 1942 Venice film festival. He ignored her. "He must have recognised me, but he did not make a single movement," she said. "He was always the master of self-control."
In 1945 Baarova was arrested by the Americans and briefly imprisoned for collaboration. Goebbels and his wife stayed with Hitler in his bunker, taking their own lives and those of their six children on May 1 as the Russians swept into Berlin"
Geobbels family. All kids were poisoned by Magda Goebbels. Men in Luftwaffe uniform is Harald Quandt, Magda's son from her first marriage. He survived the war and as wealthy industrialist become one of the richest man in post-war Germany.
Magda also had affairs (including one with Joseph's deputy Karl Hanke) and there is evidence that at some point they had agreed to have an open marriage.
Notions about marriage triangle and open marriage of Joseph Goebbels are particularly interesting. Let's say Goebbels was not exactly as handsome as Gregory Peck... also not as sporty type as Smooth Heini (Heinrich Himmler).
Magda's revange affair with fanatical Karl Hanke is very mysterious too.
Karl Hanke - defender of Breslau and last Reichsfuerer SS...
Hanke never learned about his promotion to the highest SS rank, he was executed by Czech or Polish partisans in May 1945.
Left - Lida Baarova. Right - Goebbels family.
Excellent work as usual. I wonder how the German people would have reacted if they knew the truth about the Third Reich's "model family". The story would probably make a great TV miniseries.
Interesting too about the rivalries at the top. "Hermann Goring placed a wiretap on Lida Baarová's telephone, and enjoyed spreading scandalous stories about her and Goebbels in the highest Nazi circles. Himmler also liked to tell how there were lines of women waiting to swear how Goebbels had coerced them: "I've turned the choicest statements over to the Fuhrer."
Have you ever seen the movie Downfall? I remember watching the special features on the DVD after watching the movie and noted that the German actress who played Magda Goebbels explained how difficult it was for her emotionally preparing for her role - that Magda Goebbels could bring herself to poison all of her children was particularly troubling to her.
The riveting subject of Downfall is nothing less than the disintegration of Adolf Hitler in mind, body, and soul. A 2005 Academy Award nominee for best foreign language film, this German historical drama stars Bruno Ganz (Wings of Desire) as Hitler, whose psychic meltdown is depicted in sobering detail, suggesting a fallen, pathetic dictator on the verge on insanity, resorting to suicide (along with Eva Braun and Joseph and Magda Goebbels) as his Nazi empire burns amidst chaos in mid-1945. While staging most of the film in the claustrophobic bunker where Hitler spent his final days, director Oliver Hirschbiegel (Das Experiment) dares to show the gentler human side of der Fuehrer, as opposed to the pure embodiment of evil so familiar from many other Nazi-era dramas. This balanced portrayal does not inspire sympathy, however: We simply see the complexity of Hitler's character in the greater context of his inevitable downfall, and a more realistic (and therefore more horrifying) biographical portrait of madness on both epic and intimate scales. By ending with a chilling clip from the 2002 documentary Blind Spot: Hitler's Secretary, this unforgettable film gains another dimension of sobering authenticity. --Jeff Shannon
From The New Yorker
The great Swiss-German actor Bruno Ganz gives a staggering performance as Adolf Hitler in this full-scale realist German production detailing the last ten days of the Third Reich. As the Red Army rampages through Berlin, Hitler and his staff have retreated to the bunker under the Reich Chancellery. They are all here-Himmler, Goebbels, Speer, the entire fascinating, loathsome crew of commanders, mad visionaries, and toadies (all brilliantly acted)-and, leading them still, a man so physically ill and constricted in movement that he looks like a broken-down puppet from a Bavarian travelling circus. The puppet comes to life, of course, in appalling self-pitying rants that are borderline funny. The entire movie teeters on the edge of sick comedy-in particular such scenes as the death of the Goebbels children, one by one, at the hands of their mother-and at times one longs for a coldly malicious ironist like Brecht or Fassbinder to come in and take over. The attempt to re-create Hitler in realistic terms has always been morally and imaginatively questionable-a compromise with the unspeakable that borders on complicity with it. Produced and written by Bernd Eichinger; directed by Oliver Hirschbiegel. In German. -David Denby
Copyright © 2006 The New Yorker.
Also many customer reviews at the above site.
Thanks again for your very informative and interesting post
George, dedicated thread on "Die Untergang": http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1915
Regimentul 38 "Neagoe Basarab"
Divizia 10 Infanterie
-Originally Posted by Dani
Regimentul 38 "Neagoe Basarab"
Divizia 10 Infanterie
The secret life of Heinrich Himmler
"Heinrich Luitpold Himmler (October 7, 1900 – May 23, 1945) was the commander of the German Schutzstaffel (SS) and one of the most powerful men in Nazi Germany. As Reichsführer-SS he controlled the SS and the Gestapo. He also became a leading organizer of the Holocaust. As founder and officer-in-charge of the Nazi concentration camps and the Einsatzgruppen death squads, Himmler held final command responsibility for implementing the industrial-scale extermination of between 6 and 12 million people. This was aimed particularly at Jews and Slavs, but also against those of many other nationalities, races and conditions considered by him to be suitable for killing, or Sonderbehandlung ("special treatment") as gas chamber murder was euphemistically known within the SS."
That much by Wikipedia.
Images of Himmler in black SS helmet or laughing in presence of Hitler and Goering are in stark contrast with personal life of this very strange nazi.
In 1926, Strasser was promoted to party propaganda chief and moved to Munich and Himmler went with him as his deputy. Around this time, Himmler met a former army nurse by the name of Margarete Boden who owned and operated a clinic specializing in homeopathic medicine. A romance ensued and the two were married in 1928. Margarete sold her clinic and used the money to buy a small farm in Waltrudering near Munich. After years of studying agriculture, Himmler now operated his own farm. He and his wife grew and sold produce, farm implements, and also raised chickens. In 1929, the Himmlers had a daughter Gudrun.
Himmler as chicken farmer with wife Margarete, (eight years older than him) and daughter Gudrun.
Himmler with Margaret, Gudrun and adopted step son.
Heinrich spent so much time with his work in the Nazi party that he began to ignore his farm and his wife. The marriage suffered and the Himmlers began living apart. Heinrich began an affair with his secretary Hedwig Potthast. Attractive daughter of a Cologne businessman and ex-sargeant major, she became secretary to Himmler and later his mistress when he lost all affection for Marga, his wife.
In 1942, Hedwig gave birth to her first child, her second was born in 1944, another daughter. Himmler, not wishing the scandal of a divorce, borrowed 80,000 marks from the Party Chancellery and built a house for Hedwig at Schonau, near Berchtesgaden. They called it 'Haus Schneewinkellehen'. There she became friends with Bormann's wife Greda, who lived nearby.
Fact of Himmlers empty pockets as compared with enormous wealth of Goering tell us a lot about quite idealistic nature of Himmler.
It looks like he was not stealing...
Forced to borrow money from NSDAP Chancellery - read Martin Bormann, Himmler become Bormann's supporter.
(As persistent rumours about Bormann being a soviet spy still exist today, loan from him to Himmler may be one of the secrets behind the whole conduct of war.)
Hedwig Potthast was 12 years younger than him. she was 26 years old in 1938. She was familiarly know as 'Haschen'.
Edited to fix spelling
Last edited by Lancer44; 07-03-2006 at 08:39 PM.
One of the extremely rare photos of Hedwig Potthast.
Gudrun remained the apple of her father's eye even after the marriage began to deteriorate. Lavished with presents and well known to Germans as "Puppi",
Gudrun Himmler was a model German kid. She even visited Dachau concentration camp with her father...
Gudrun remained his favourite as she demonstrates in an entry in her wartime diary written when at the age of 12 when her father "spoiled" her with a day trip to one of the death camps: "Today we went to the SS concentration camp at Dachau. We saw everything we could. We saw the gardening work. We saw the pear trees. We saw all the pictures painted by the prisoners. Marvellous. And afterwards we had a lot to eat ... it was very nice."
(From THE TIMES: FOREIGN NEWS
SATURDAY, 18 APRIL 1998)
Gudrun with Dad in public.
Gudrun and Dad - probably 1942 - the time when SS killing machine was in full swing...
Last edited by Lancer44; 07-04-2006 at 04:14 AM.
Gudrun, her Dad and SS General Karl Wolff.
Gudrun Himmler in 1956
Gudrun - first from right. In the middle Margaret Himmler. Circa 1957.
Gudrun Burwitz nee Himmler in Munich 2003
She still remembers her father fondly and refuses to reproach him, "Whatever is said about my Papi, whatever is written or shall be written in the future about him - he was my father, the best father I could have and I loved him and still love him."
Frau Burwitz is feted by the veteran elite just as she was by her own father, and has attended an SS veterans' rally in Austria.
Like the children of Martin Bormann and Hermann Goering, she knows the fame attached to having such men as fathers. Unlike them, she keeps alive the memory of her father - the architect of the Final Solution. She is Himmler's only legitimate child, whom he nicknamed "Puppi" (little doll).
I could not find anything about post-war life of Himmler's illegitimate son Helge (b.1942) and daughter Nanette Dorothea (b.1944) from a relationship with his personal assistant Hedwig Potthast.
Catharine Himmler, a great-niece of Heinrich Himmler, is married to an Israeli, the son of Holocaust survivors who survived the Warsaw Ghetto.
George Duncan's Women of the Third Reich
"a collection of short biographical portraits of some forty women who either gave their full support to Hitler and were sympathetic to the Nazi party - or, on the other hand - were strongly anti-Nazi and played an active part in the anti-Hitler resistance movements."
Martin Bormann the secret ruler of Germany. Married Gerda Buch, nine years his junior in 1929, (Adolf Hitler and Rudolf Hess were their witnesses), and had 10 kids with her. Below are their names and dates of birth:
Adolf Martin (Martin jr.) 14-04-1930 (commonly known as Kroenzi)
Erengard Franziska 09-07-1931
Ilse (renamed Eicke after 10-05-1941)
Helmut Gerhard 31-08-1934
Heinrich Hugo (named after Heinrich Himmler) 13-06-1936
Eva Ute 04-08-1940
Fred Hartmut 04-03-1942
Bormanns were another III-rd Reich model family. Perhaps even more model than Goebelses or Himmlers, because Gerda Bormann recognising her husband "enormous potential" agreed that their marriage will be open and also agreed that Martin can have numerous affairs consumed in their own house.
Gerda Bormann and kids in Obersalzberg
Visiting Uncle Adolf.
Bormann's house in Obersalzberg was overlooking Hitler's Berghof.
GERDA DARANOVSKY was one of the first tryumphs of Martin Bormann. Bormann, however, knew how to get rid of his lovers when they outlived their usefullness and soon Gerda was more or less happily married to Hitler's private chauffeur Erich Kempka. Kempka quickly realised that Gerda will sleep with anybody and passed her to General Eckard Christian, Chief of Staff to the Luftwaffe whom she divorced in 1946.
As anyone can see "atmosphere at the Berghof was intensely erotic, but only for Hitler’s henchmen – not for their docile, fecund wives. Frau Bormann wrote to her husband with reference to his mistress, the ravishing young actress Magda Behren: “See to it that one year she has a child and next year I have a child, so you will always have a wife who is serviceable.” Given the plentiful supply of unmarried typists, telephonists, servants and cooks, the men from Hitler’s circle had virtual droit du seigneur and made full use of it."
(From Sunday Times, March 12, 2006
After Gerda Daranovsky/Kempka/Christian, Martin Bormann fished out Frau Silberhorn, the telephonist.
Angela Lambert, Times journalist, get it somewhat wrong saying that Bormann had mistress Magda Behren. It was Manja Behren, well known actress.
Manja Behrens survived war and died January 18, 2003.
In the mean time she had quite long and fullfilling career as popular actress in... German Democratic Republic - communist East Germany.
Joachim C Fest
The Face Of The Third Reich
Practitioners And Technicians Of Totalitarian Rule
Joachim C Fest disguised name of Manja Behrens under single letter "M".
He mentioned, (look for appendix 33 and near "33" in text :
"This is the explanation for the embarrassingly comic exchange of letters between Bormann and his wife after he had told her in January 1944, with triumphant frankness, that he had at last succeeded in seducing the actress M. Gerda Bormann at once bravely accommodated this information to her philosophy and assured him that she was neither angry nor jealous, but ready to accept M into the common household and, in view of the terrible decline in child production brought about by the war, to work out a system of motherhood by shifts, 'so that you always have a wife who is useable'.
"As emerges from the correspondence, Bormann not only sent his wife's letters back home to be kept, but also the love letters from M: a bureaucrat through and through, who locked even romance into a filing cabinet."
Manja Behrens played also in East Berlin Volks Theatre. Here you can see her in season 1954/55 as Anna Karenina.
"In the spring of 1945, Martin Bormann moved with Hitler into the underground bunker below the Chancellery. He stayed with Hitler and signed his last will and testament. When Hitler married Eva Braun one hour before their deaths, Bormann acted as witness during the ceremony. On April 30th, following Hitler's suicide, Bormann left the bunker and various witnesses claim that he was killed by the explosion of a Russian anti-tank shell while he was trying to escape. Others claim that Bormann committed suicide, and still others claim that he escaped to South America.
In November 1972, East German construction workers excavating near the Lehrter Railway Station unearthed two skeletons. Both carried fragments of glass in their jawbones, indicative of the remains of cyanide vials. One skeleton measured 6feet 6 inches in height and the other measured 5 feet 7 inches. The latter skeleton showed the marks of a broken collarbone. Upon laboratory examination, it was concluded that both individuals died of poisoning. It was alleged that a retired postal worker, Albert Krumnow, had personally buried the bodies of Martin Bormann and Hitler's physician Dr. Ludwig Stumpfegger in that area. Dental records were used to identify the 5 foot 7inch tall skeleton as Martin Bormann. Two of Bormann's sons reported that their father had broken his collarbone in a horse riding accident in 1939. In 1973, DNA tests were conducted using samples from one of Martin Bormann's living relatives and the results were a positive match. The government of West Germany officially declared Martin Bormann dead in 1973.
Despite these findings, many people believe that Bormann escaped and many sightings have been reported over the years in Argentina, Chile, and Bolivia. In 1946, he was sentenced to death in absentia at the Nuremberg trials. The truth of what happened to Martin Bormann remains a mystery."
I don't think any of these rumours about Bormann in South America are believable. So what Sepp Dietrich was doing there? He recovered nazi funds with help of Evita.
I don't want also to be accused of conspiracy theory, but please look at a few proven facts:
1. No one ever seen earthy remains of Martin Bormann until 1972.
2. Discovery of skeletons was by .... East German workers on the other side of the Wall.
3. Around this time rumours were circulating about top secret soviet spy "Werther", which was "close to highest circles of nazi Party".
4. Bormann's latest love, Manja Behrens lived happily in East Berlin...and she is popular among hi brasses of DDR like Otto Grotewohl and Walter Ulbricht.
What do you think about it?
Last edited by Lancer44; 07-04-2006 at 11:52 PM.
There are currently 6 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 6 guests)