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Thread: Centurion Tank

  1. #106
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Centurion Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by tankgeezer View Post
    while not having to walk everywhere was a nice bonus
    A bonus?

    That was the whole bloody reason I joined the Armoured Corps, having been promised by the recruiter a life of endless military magnificence and luxury as I propelled my Ferret Scout Car around the planet in almost no time after completing basic training.

    Yeah, right!

    Quote Originally Posted by tankgeezer View Post
    and could be very difficult for crew to escape from should the need arise.
    Not the mighty Ferret.

    Thoughtfully provided with escape hatches on both sides of the hull.

    Admittedly, you wouldn't need the escape hatches if the mighty Ferret got hit by an RPG, but otherwise they could be quite handy, such as with a sudden case of explosive diarrohea threatening localised chemical or bacteriological warfare inside the vehicle.


    Quote Originally Posted by tankgeezer View Post
    We always enjoyed having the dirty grunts, er, I mean Hallowed Infantry nearby, good fellows to have at hand, we'd keep each other safe from the Communist Hoards. (or would have had it ever come to that. )
    Nah, in your era you and the infantry and everyone else would have demonstrated how much toast could be made in Europe courtesy of Soviet toaster missiles, and vice versa for the Soviets.

    Thank Christ we all avoided that.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  2. #107
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    Default Re: Centurion Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    A few things about that painting struck me as unlikely, so I looked it up to see what it was supposed to illustrate.

    The thing that struck me immediately was the turret machine gunner wearing the RAAC black beret and chrome badge. In the jungle; on operations; against the enemy? I wore that beret and badge in that era, although as cavalry rather than tanks, and wearing it in those circumstances went against every piece of training we got. As, possibly, does the cap worn by the bloke to his left (right of picture) which appears to have some sort of bright badge in the middle. Bags me being either of the other two blokes on the turret, who are much less likely to be the first target for a sniper.

    The lack of headgear on those actually involved in the operation in the following three photos is much more consistent with training and practice than the painting.
    You're sounding like just about every former, sniper-eyed serviceman I know, who cannot help pointing out mistakes in production. It's the critical eye which comes from years of training and experience.

    I would guess that it is, in part, a little artistic license. To catch the spirit of the operation and the hour. The beret being identifiable is probably included for that reason - a little piece of history to be hung in the Officers Mess. It is not untypical of other portrayals of operations in other armies.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Border.jpg 
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ID:	7767 Border Regiment arriving at Oosterbeek, Operation Market Garden. Two of the figures are wearing berets, they would have all been wearing helmets.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	RGJ.jpg 
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ID:	7768 Royal Green Jackets, Leeson Street, Belfast. The berets and badges are prominent in this picture. In some ways accurately, but many regiments being aware of the sniper threat, blackened their cap badges or removed them at night.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Para.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	158.3 KB 
ID:	7769 No helmet.
    Last edited by 32Bravo; 09-18-2016 at 05:18 AM.


    "Although God cannot alter the past, Historians can"


    Samuel Butler


  3. #108
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    Default Re: Centurion Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post



    Just occurred to me that there are problems with that photo.

    Australian War Memorial caption says "A sharp eye is needed when moving through jungle such as this in South Vietnam. Sitting astride an Armoured Recovery Vehicle (ARV), his M60 machine gun close by, is Private (Pte) Frank Jelen of Fairfield, NSW, a member of the 3rd Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment (3RAR). The ARV is followed by a Centurion tank. Australian soldiers of 3RAR and 4RAR combined with C Squadron, 1st Armoured Regiment, in Operation Overlord on the border of Phuoc Tuy and Long Khanh Provinces, to the north of the 1st Australian Task Force Base (1ATF) at Nui Dat."


    Why would a recovery vehicle be the lead vehicle in any offensive operation?

    Why would the M60 machine gunner on the recovery vehicle be facing the "following" Centurion? Surely he would be facing forward in the opposite direction if the recovery vehicle was in the lead.

    I reckon it's more likely that the Centurion is the lead vehicle with turret reversed in heavy country, and the recovery vehicle is following.

    Edit: The faint tracks don't decide it either way, as they're consistent with either vehicle being the lead vehicle.
    (My Bold and Italics). That's a negative there: We're clearly seeing the spare wheel set mounted on the distinctive sloped glacis plate of the following Cent. (Unless the whole column is reversing through the J.)

    Cheers,
    Cliff

  4. #109
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    Default Re: Centurion Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by CliSwe View Post
    (My Bold and Italics). That's a negative there: We're clearly seeing the spare wheel set mounted on the distinctive sloped glacis plate of the following Cent. (Unless the whole column is reversing through the J.)

    Cheers,
    Cliff
    You are perfectly correct.

    I am embarrassed.

    So much for my acute powers of observation. I saw what you saw, but it didn't register.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  5. #110
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    Buffalo, New York
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    Default Re: Centurion Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Australian Centurion tankies in Vietnam obviously went to a lot of trouble to get dressed up to meet General Westmoreland a few days after their Centurions were crucial in repelling enemy attacks on Australian positions at Coral, Balmoral and Coogee and in operations from those bases into enemy country and bunkers.



    Operations are outlined at http://www.army.gov.au/Our-history/H...l-and-Balmoral , which show that Centurions were effective in jungle operations.
    Wastemorland probably spent more time obsessing over his uniform than he did strategy...

  6. #111
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    Default Re: Centurion Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I wonder why the British Army never moved forward with the next generation of the Cent in the FV4202 prototype that is in WOT. What little I saw on it was that it was never seriously considered as a next generation tank as the Chieftain was already entering service. But it seems a lot of the short comings of the Centurion were fixed and the tank was on par with the M-60A1/A3...
    The FV4202 was a test bed vehicle designed to test out concepts for the Chieftain and was never envisaged as anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by tankgeezer View Post
    Did they offer him some Tea? cents still had the boiler in them then right?
    An essential bit of kit gracing the G1098 stores of all units with armoured vehicles since the 1950's - second item on your CES after the vehicle


    When the last Cents retired from the Sappers it was the end of a love hate relationship - with many sad to see the old girls go (Cent Mk 5 165 AVRE and Cent Mk 12 105 AVRE) - especially as they got Chieftain AVRE's to replace them, although they were not the 'build as cheap as you can from spares you can find Willich ChAVRE' but the 'Vickers build a very expensive version using all the ideas and design information done by 23 Base Wksp and charge a premium for it'
    IN the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
    Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise
    An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
    With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes
    At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
    They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

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