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Thread: Antitank Rifles & Machineguns.

  1. #1
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    Default Antitank Rifles & Machineguns.

    Panzerbüchse 38


    ("Tank Rifle"), often abbreviated as PzB 38, conceived by Dipl.-Ing. (certified engineer) B. Brauer and built by the Gustloff-Werke in Suhl. It was a manually loaded single shot weapon with moving barrel. When fired, the barrel recoiled about 9cm, which opened the breech and expelled the spent cartridge. The breech block was then arrested in the rear position, leabing an opening for the gunner to manually insert a new cartridge. The gunner then released the cocked breech with a lever at the grip. breech and barrel then glide forward again and the trigger is cocked. The weapon is ready to fire again. This rather complicated mechansim was reportedly prone to jamming if the system got dirty in field use.
    The weapon uses the bipod found on the MG 34; the shoulder plate is rubber-cushioned and can be folded to the right for ease of transportation. Although manufactered with pressed steel parts that were spot-welded, still because of the complicated vertical block breech mechanism it was difficult to manufacture and only the small number of 1408 PzB 38 was built from 1939 to 1940 at the company Gustloff Co. Waffenfabrik in Suhl; 62 of these weapons had been used by the german troops in the invasion of Poland 1939. As soon as the successor PzB 39 was available immediately production was switched over to the new type. The weapon had an overall length of 161.5 cm (129cm with the stock folded for transportation) and a barrel (4 grooves rs) length of 108.5 cm. Total weight (incl. bipod and carrying sling) 16.2 kg, weight of barrel (incl muzzle brake) 6.14kg; Vo using the Patrone 318 was 1,210m/s which made for a penetration of 30mm at 100m.



  2. #2
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    Panzerbüchse 39



    This 8mm gun featured a vertical breech block mechanism. It had an overall length of 162.0 cm; weight was reduced to 12.6 kg. It's performance data was basically the same as that of the PzB 38.

    Pzb 39 with the grip forward (open chamber)



    To increase the practical rate of fire, two cartridge-holding cases containing 10 rounds each could be attached to both sides of the weapon near the breech - these were not magazines feeding the weapon, they simply enabled the gunner to extract the cartridges (that he still had to manually insert into the gun) from the conveniently placed magazines.



    568 PzB 39 were used by the german army in the invasion of Poland; two years later, at the beginning of the war against russia, 25,298 PzB 39 were in use by german troops; total production form March 1940 to November 1941, when production ceased, was 39,232 rifles.


    This ammunition was called Patrone 318, the full official designation was Patrone 318 SmK-Rs- L'spur or Patrone 318 SmKH -Rs-L'spur, whereas "Patrone" means "cartridge", 318 was an inversion of 813 that stood for an 8,2 mm bullet in a 13mm casing.

    The 7,92x94 mm round.



    SmK meant "Spitzgeschoss mit Kern" ("pointed bullet with core"), SmK(H) = "Spitzgeschoss mit Kern (Hart)" ("pointed bullet with core (hard) meant the same projectile that featured a tungsten-carbide core, Rs stood for "Reizstoff" ("irritant agent") because the projectile also contained a small amount of tear gas, L'spur for "Leuchtspur" ("bright trace" = "tracer") indicating the bullet had a small tracer in its rear.



    In the todays point of view it seems incredible that such a small caliber was chosen, but in 1939 with the majority of the tanks with armor ranging from 10-25 mm it look like a razonable choice.

    At a typical Vo of slightly over 1,200m/s the projectile penetrated 30mm of steel at a range of 100m and still up to 20mm at 300m (both at 0° slope) and was accepted as the standard anti-tank rifle ammunition to be used by all weapons of that type. The irritant agent in the projectile was a ridiculous idea that envisioned to make the crew of the hit target leave their vehicle or otherwise impair them to a degree of battleunworthiness; however, the tear gas pellet in the projectile was so little that the irritant agent was never noticed by enemy crews; in fact, it wasn't discovered by the allies until after captured ammunition was examined.
    Production of the Patrone 318 ran until August 1942.

    Paratroopers in france in 1940, the Pzb 39 at the shoulder.



    Technical data:
    Overall length: 162cm;
    barrel length 108.5cm;
    total weight (incl. bipod and carrying sling but no magazines)
    12.6kg; weight empty 11.6kg; total weight of magazine (loaded) 1.09kg; weight magazine (empty) 0.25kg; practical rate of fire: 10 shots/min. Ammunition:

    Patrone 318; Vo 1,210 m/s; armor penetration 30mm of homogeneus plate at 100m with the Tugsten core and 28 mm with the steel core bullet.

    Some of these rifles were mounted in armored vehicles such as the Sd.Kfz 222 and the enginners vehicle Sd.Kfz 251/7




    ----------

  3. #3
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    is there any record that this kind of rifles actually can destroy or at least disable armoured cars/tanks?
    If you are a P-51D pilot, you are going down soon
    The Axis Project



    Great game: www.cybernations.net

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    I think that the right word is "disable" and yes the 8mm Panzerbuchsen can disable all the allied armored cars and some light tanks of the 1939-41 period like the Cruiser A-14, T-26, T-60, and the Vickers lights.
    There is no a exact figure.


    The germans used also a small number of others desings including some foreigns ones , I have to continue this topic but today I dont have the time



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    Great info mate and realy great research. Nice pics to.

    Keep it up mate.

    The deploying of that grenade looks a bit difficult to do.

    Henk


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    I would not want to carry that heavy thing.

    Henk


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    20mm rifles



    Most of this designs were made by the Rheinmetall owned swiss factory of Solothurn, this facility was employed in the late 20s and mid 30s as for the insvestigation on small arms.

    Solothurn , introduced the self-loading S18-100 series (the numbers of the variants went up to S18-500) in a unique 20 x 105B calibre. The gun was gas-operated and this round was later used to develop an aircraft cannon, the Lb 204, although by the time this was adopted for use in German naval aircraft as the MG 204 the case design had been changed slightly to a rimless 20 x 105.



    The tipes of ammo:




    The S-18-100 had a muzzle speed of 750 M/s and it could penetrate 30mm of armor at 200 meters distance. This rifle weights 42 kg and was nearly 2 meters long, it was feed from the side by 5 or 10 rounds magazines. Only a few of these were actually used by the german army under the designacion of 2cm Tankbüchse S-18, the gun simply did not fit in the "blitzkrieg" concept, in the end much smaller antiarmor weapons were used instead.

    S-18-100 in use in Holland 1940.



    100 rifles were also used by Finland ans some more by Hungary.

  8. #8
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    -

    Solothurn S18-100 anti-tank rifle:


    -



    -
    Last edited by tankgeezer; 09-09-2012 at 09:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Eller
    George , the caption in that picture is slightly wrong, the gun is a S-18-100 not a S-18-1000, the diference was that the earlier use a 20x105mm caliber and the model 1000 used a 20x138B mm caliber wich was compatible with the german 2cm Flak 30/38 and the 20mm Breda/Scotti used by the Italians. Check the muzzle brake and the ausence of gas port in the upper barrel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerknacker
    Quote Originally Posted by George Eller
    George , the caption in that picture is slightly wrong, the gun is a S-18-100 not a S-18-1000, the diference was that the earlier use a 20x105mm caliber and the model 1000 used a 20x138B mm caliber wich was compatible with the german 2cm Flak 30/38 and the 20mm Breda/Scotti used by the Italians. Check the muzzle brake and the ausence of gas port in the upper barrel.
    -

    Panzerknaker, your right - it appears to be incorrectly captioned as an S-18-1000.
    However, it may not be an S-18-100 either.

    When I originally posted the image, I noticed that it looked different from the picture that I posted below it.
    I just assumed it to be a possible difference between German and Italian models.

    But now I am wondering if it may actually be an "ST 5".
    Notice the size of the grips, trigger guard and the muzzle shapes.

    What do you think? See below:


    THE S18/1000-1100 SOLOTHURN 20mm ANTI-TANK RIFLE
    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...gif&imgrefurl=
    http://www.amsd.ch/s18/main-s18-solo...=140&w=600&sz=
    28&tbnid=JcO-MdPyoLbrtM:&tbnh=31&tbnw=133&hl=en&start=1&prev=
    /images%3Fq%3D%2B%2522solothurn%2Bs18%2B1000%2522%2 6svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

    THE S18/1000 HISTORY
    http://www.amsd.ch/s18/s18-history.html
    -

    ST 5 THE ANCESTOR
    http://www.amsd.ch/pictures/s18/ST5-0000-640.gif

    -


    -

    S18-100 LEFT SIDE
    http://www.amsd.ch/pictures/S18/S18-0052-1000.jpg

    -

    2cm Panzerbuchse Solothurn S18-1000 anti-tank
    http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/vapen...tank/05209.jpg

    -

    THE S18/1000 AMMUNITION
    http://www.amsd.ch/s18/s18-ammunition.html

    -

  11. #11
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    It looks clealy like a ST 5 the muzzle brake is mi guide. 8)

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    Two aditional pics for the heavy Solo S-18-1000.

    In transport.




    In firing emplacement.




    The ammo used (20x138B)


    AP phosforous.




    Ap tugsten core ( very rare, reserved for the AFVs)




    Explosive with incendiary and self destruct.


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    The massive 20mm Solothurn S-18-100 in the hands of a estonian volunteer.




    This gun could penetrate a russian T-26 up to 400 meters range.

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    This information is relevant to the topic:

    Panzerbüchse 35(p) / PzB 770(p)



    The Polish Maroszek WZ 35 had been conceived and developed by Lt.Col. T. Felsztyn and the engineer Jósef Maroszek in the early 1930ies. First trials in late 1935 proved unsuccessful, because the extremely stressed barrel endured only about 20 shots. After intensive research and testing an almost perfect relation between ammunition characteristics and barrel construction was reached. The new weapon had a life expectancy of 300 shots. It was integrated into the army in November 1935, simulated battles showed a more than satisfying performance as an anti-tank rifle.
    However, the rifle was considered so important that a strict veil of secrecy was put over the whole project, and the delivery crates - containig one Maroszek WZ 35, three replacement barrels and three full ammo magazines - were sealed with the strict order that the seal was only to be broken under direct orders of the defense minister. Until July 1938 only a very restricted and select group of people (again under strict nondisclosure - orders) - mostly military commanders of different command levels - was shown the weapon. The result was that in many cases the soldiers that were to use it didn't even see the weapon before WW II started with the german invasion of Poland! Due to all this, this reasonably performing weapon saw only very limited use in the Polish war against the attacking germans; many Polish soldiers ended the short German invasion of Poland still ignorant of the weapon!
    The Germans captured considerable numbers of these weapons still unissued in the armories and storages; it received the German designation Panzerbüchse 35(p) ("Tank Rifle", the suffix "p" for "polnisch") - abbreviated as PzB 35(p) - but was also called Panzerbüchse 770(p) and was issued to german troops. Some of the weapons were also given to and employed by italian troops. At least 630 of these polish tank rifles were incorporated into the Wehrmacht and used in the war against the French in 1940
    The PzB 35(p) was a single shot weapon with a magazine for three rounds. It can easily be recognized by the lack of a pistol grip which is rather uncommon for tank rifles. The barrel had 6 grooves / right spin and was very long and thin. After 300 shots it had to be changed, which could be accomplished rather quick and uncomplicated with a special key. The well-designed muzzle brake absorbed 65% of the recoil forces and the recoil of the weapon was contrary to other tank rifles only slightly stronger than that of a regular infantry rifle. Because the ammunition for this weapon had no hardened core but relied on the high velocity of the bullet, penetration performance dropped significantly at ranges beyond 300m; the lack of a hard core in the projectile (weight: 12.8g) this weapon fires is widely regarded as the foremost drawback of this weapon. The high velocity of the bullet made for an extremely staright flight path, therefore sights at a range of 300m were used. The weapon comes complete with a bipod but can be used without it. Penetration performance is rated at 22mm of armor at 50m and 15mm at 100m (both at 60° impact angle), which sufficed for the successfull engagement of lightly armored vehicles early in the war, but like other tank rifles the weapon was practically useless against tanks after 1940.
    Other data: caliber 7.92mm; Vo : 1,280m/s; length 176cm; barrel length 120cm; weight w/o ammo 9.5kg (10kg with bipod). practical rate of fire: 6 rounds per minute.

    This information was taken from this site: http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust.htm

    I think it is very informative and interesting.

    Cheers,

    Lancer44

    .


    "Accuse them of murdering three men and a dog, and they will triumphantly produce the dog alive."
    --Fr. George Tyrell, about Jesuits ca. 1900

  15. #15
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    It is, This polish rifle was the first in use the tugsten core ammo.

    but was also called Panzerbüchse 770(p) and was issued to german troops. Some of the weapons were also given to and employed by italian troops.

    Also it was used in the Eslovaquian and Hungarian army.

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