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Thread: KNIL (Royal Netherlands Indies Army)

  1. #31
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    Great info as usual RS

    Very informative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by George Eller View Post
    -
    The last story about the Batavia - wow. What a group of monsters those mutineers were...the evil that men do. Thank God they were brought to justice.
    -
    Yeah, but bloody brutal justice!
    -

    Indeed it was brutal. Some received quite gruesome sentences, although it's hard to have sympathy for the perpetrators of such heinous crimes.

    http://www.vocshipwrecks.nl/out_voya...ning_wheel.jpg
    http://www.vocshipwrecks.nl/out_voya..._hands_off.jpg

    However, I think the sentences carried out were representative of the times in which they lived.

    Beheading
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beheading

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Walter_Raleigh

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles...d_and_Scotland

    Dismemberment
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dismemberment

    Hanged, Drawn and Quartered
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged%..._and_quartered

    Execution by Burning
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_by_burning

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burned_heretics

    Breaking wheel
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_wheel

    Witchhunt
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchhunt

    Execution Methods
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Execution_methods

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tal_punishment

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    Last edited by George Eller; 06-04-2007 at 05:36 PM.

  2. #32
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    Default Knil

    This is a photo of my grandfather just befor the war or during not sure but it was taken in Malang Indonesia.




    This is a photo of my grandfather after he retiered from th duch army He was in the KNIL during the second world war. He spent some time as a pow


  3. #33
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    Thanks for the pics Dutch Knight

    Looks like your grandfather had several decorations.

    My mom's family was living in Jokjakarta in southeastern Java when war broke out with Japan. Her father was an Onderluitenant in the KNIL. He was serving at GHQ in Bandung (west-central Java) when the Japanese invaded. He died at the Tjimahi POW camp on 24 Jan 1945 and is buried in the cemetery there (central Java).


    My grandfather's picture from his military ID taken prior to the war.

    Thanks again for your post.

    -
    Last edited by George Eller; 06-09-2007 at 11:41 AM.

  4. #34
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    My pleasure, My grand father was an engineer and held th rank of Sargent Major He was posted in malang Indonesia. he was also present when indonesia gained independence from Holland. Sadly he was also present when the KNIL Was disbanded. I also have a copy of a letter that my grand father had writen to the Queen of Holland asking permission to marry a native girl who later became my grand mother ( i will post this at a later date)

    below is my grand fathers Identity card


  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Knight View Post
    My pleasure, My grand father was an engineer and held th rank of Sargent Major He was posted in malang Indonesia. he was also present when indonesia gained independence from Holland. Sadly he was also present when the KNIL Was disbanded. I also have a copy of a letter that my grand father had writen to the Queen of Holland asking permission to marry a native girl who later became my grand mother ( i will post this at a later date)

    below is my grand fathers Identity card

    -

    That's interesting Dutch Knight

    Thanks also for the photo. I look forward to seeing your grandfather's letter to the Dutch Queen.

    Like your grandfather, my grandfather also married a native girl. My grandmother was from Java.

    I have attached some links on various topics relating to the East Indies from before, during and after WWII that may be interesting to you.

    -

    The Map Room
    http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/.../006_maps.html

    Java map - 1935 - this map can be expanded.
    Malang is in Southeastern Java - south of the port of Surabaya (Soerabaja)
    http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/.../maps/java.jpg

    Environs of Tosari and Malang map - 1920 (southeast Java)
    http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/...#37;201920.gif

    Tjimahi Camp - central Java.
    http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/...ps/tjimahi.jpg

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    Battle of Java (1942)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Java_%281942%29

    http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/java.html

    http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/oob.html

    http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastin...a_gallery.html

    http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/

    -

    Interviews with veterans of the Dutch East Indies Campaign
    http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/veterans.html

    Uniforms of Dutch East Indies Campaign
    http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/uniforms.html

    KNIL Weapons - Rifle pics
    http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/...n/i004817.html

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    KNIL Armor - Dutch East Indies Campaign
    http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastin...IL_armour.html

    Japanese Armor - Dutch East Indies Campaign
    http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastin...parmunits.html

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    KNIL History
    Engineers - Signals

    http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/e...rssignals.msnw

    http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history/e...to&PhotoID=185

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    THE DUTCH WAR VETERAN ORACLE

    http://members.tripod.com/~korremans/home.htm

    Sergeant C.N.W. Korremans of the KNIL served in the last Dutch colonies like Dutch East Indies and New-Guinea (at this moment Indonesia and Irian-Jaya) and was specialized for the occupation as bomb expert and destruction specialist. He was one of the last soldiers of this brigade (Tiger-Brigade) who returned to his country in 1952.

    He was incorporated in the famous "Tiger-Brigade" which fought against the troops of the former freedom fighter (later the first president of Indonesia) Ir. Sukarno. The "Tiger-Brigade" was situated in the center of the Republic of Indonesia, the headquarters of this brigade was based in Semarang the capital of the Middle-Java region.

    The 5e Engineering Field-company (to which he belonged for the first 1 1/2 year) was one of the most famous engineering companies, which was decorated by General Spoor, the supreme commander of all Dutch troops in the Far East.

    -

    Tiger Brigade

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/tigerbrig...dexenglish.htm

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/tigerbrigade/support.htm

    Engineers

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/tigerbrig...dcompagnie.htm

    -

    JAAP (JAKE) DRUPSTEEN IX Battalion
    DUTCH EAST INDIES (Indonesia) 1946-1949

    Pioneer (Engineer) platoon

    Partial quote:
    (Note: Genie is a Dutch word without an equivalent English translation so in explanation Genie companies were normally attached to an infantry battalion to provide for support in areas such as bridges, roads, construction etc. Many of the people at HQ were part of KNIL, the Dutch/East Indian Army. The corps Genie just celebrated it's 250 year, yes 250th, anniversary.)

    http://extrapages.tripod.com/Drupsteen.html

    -
    Last edited by George Eller; 06-09-2007 at 12:18 PM.

  6. #36
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    Hi,

    I write article about Mk.1 „Boys” kal. 13,97mm AT Rifles captured by IJA (especially in Singapore where Japanese captured 248 pieces AT rifles this type), and later used by in 1945 by few IJA units.
    For example: Japanese 5th Guards Infantry Regiment on Sumatra formed at 1945 AT Rifle unit using captured Boys AT Rifle.
    Probably 451st Independent Infantry Battalion in Burma also had few AT rifles this type at 1945.

    But, I wanted to ask about something different.

    During I writing of article I interested also anothers types AT rifles captured by Japanese.
    I know, KNIL he possessed some pieces Solothurn S18-1000 AT Rifle.
    Maybe anyone knows: what amount this type weapon had KNIL durning Japanese invasion?

    I will be grateful for help. I apologize for my poor English,

    Best regards,
    jabu
    Last edited by jabu; 11-15-2007 at 07:14 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabu View Post
    Hi,

    I write article about Mk.1 „Boys” kal. 13,97mm AT Rifles captured by IJA (especially in Singapore where Japanese captured 248 pieces AT rifles this type), and later used by in 1945 by few IJA units.
    For example: Japanese 5th Guards Infantry Regiment on Sumatra formed at 1945 AT Rifle unit using captured Boys AT Rifle.
    Probably 451st Independent Infantry Battalion in Burma also had few AT rifles this type at 1945.

    But, I wanted to ask about something different.

    During I writing of article I interested also anothers types AT rifles captured by Japanese.
    I know, KNIL he possessed some pieces Solothurn S18-1000 AT Rifle.
    Maybe anyone knows: what amount this type weapon had KNIL durning Japanese invasion?

    I will be grateful for help. I apologize for my poor English,

    Best regards,
    jabu
    -

    Hi Jabu,

    Welcome to the forum

    I have some information for you from the message board (forum) at the Netherlands East Indies 1941-1942 website.

    Netherlands East Indies 1941-1942 website
    http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/
    Weapons and Equipment - Dutch East Indies Campaign
    http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/weapons.html

    -

    Pacific War 1941-1945 message boards (Netherlands East Indies 1941-1942 website)
    Archive 52

    http://www.f16.parsimony.net/cgi-bin...27947&Seite=52

    -

    How was the Tankbuks M.38 AT rifle used tactically and by who?
    Written by George Smithson at 26 Sep 2004 07:04:48:
    http://www.f16.parsimony.net/cgi-bin...27947&Seite=52

    On the Netherlands East Indies site it says the KNIL Army had this AT rifle:

    Tankbuks M.38, Dutch East Indies Army

    I have been told elswhere and here in prior posts its the Swiss Solothurn S-18/1000 and that only 72 had arrived in the NEI with 7500 pieces of ammunition.

    In one battle account Porong, vs Abe's command.

    On the evening of 6 March the Abe Unit under the command of
    Major-General Koichi Abe attacked Porong by night assault, which was defended by the following Dutch defence units:
    - 8th KNIL Infantry Battalion (Captain J.W.R.H. Doorman)
    - 13th KNIL Infantry Battalion (Major G.J. van der Meulen)
    - a half section of the 3rd Cavalry Unit (Lieutenant W.F. Rab)
    - parts of the AA and 6th AT Unit (Captain W.Ch. Lapr&#233

    I saw this from the NEI website acccount:
    "When the Japanese forces (including tanks) attacked Porong in the
    evening on that day, the KNIL troops managed to destroy the railway
    bridge, yet the other bridge was captured intact by the Japanese
    troops, since most KNIL native troops fled or better to say deserted. Most
    resistance was offered by a 47mm AT gun under the command of KNIL
    Sergeant H.F. Pasch and a AT rifle, which managed to destroy three
    Japanese tanks."

    I see it was used (presumably) in conjunction with a 47mm AT gun which from the KNIL order of battle I have seen on Dr Leos site, would be found only in each of the the KNIL Regiment's Heavy Motorized (AA and AT) Unit.

    Were these AT rifles assigned to this unit and if so how?

    Or if not where?

    Responses:

    Re: How was the Tankbuks M.38 AT rifle used tactically and by who?
    Written by Stellan Bojerud at 26 Sep 2004 11:42:26:
    http://www.f16.parsimony.net/forum27...sages/5308.htm
    The plans were: Two to each Rifle Coy, but there were not AT-rifles enough.

    They were instead issued with two to each MG Coy of the Inf Bns. A few were also issued to Balikpapan (and perhaps Tarakan - I have no evidence of that so far).

    In the MG Coys the AT rifles were in one group under Coy HQ command.

    Stellan
    http://groups.msn.com/KNIL-history
    -

    Re: How was the Tankbuks M.38 AT rifle used tactically and by who?
    Written by George Smithson at 29 Sep 2004 04:00:42:
    http://www.f16.parsimony.net/forum27...sages/5322.htm

    Thanks for this info and the link. This wasnt covered anywhere else I know of.
    -

    List of Tankbuks M.38 AT rifle equipped Battalions
    Written by George Smithson at 29 Sep 2004 20:24:17:
    http://www.f16.parsimony.net/forum27...sages/5324.htm
    Here is a list of the KNIL Battalions I could find including Garisson Battalions. It looks like there 25 Battalions at most they would have used 50 ATR and had 23 more AT Rifles available unless they put them out to the Landstorm Battalions too.

    Were they perhaps given to the 6 Cavalry units or the Mobiele Eenheid?

    1st Divison -Java
    - X. KNIL Infantry Battalion *
    - XI. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
    - XII. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
    - XIV. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
    - IV. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
    - IX. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
    - XV. KNIL Infantry Battalion*

    2nd Divison -Java
    - I. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
    - II. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
    - V. KNIL Infantry Battalion*
    - NEI Infantry Regiment "Zuid" Infantry Battalion at Mangkoe Negoro*?
    - NEI Infantry Regiment "Zuid" MG Company *?
    - KNIL Infantry Battalion at Tjilatjap*

    3rd 1st Divison -Java
    - III. KNIL Infantry Battalion *
    - VIII. KNIL Infantry Battalion less 3rd Co. (to Timor) *
    - XIII. KNIL Infantry Battalion less 1 MG Platoon (to Timor)*

    Sumatra
    Fort de Kock
    • West Sumatra and Tapanoeli (1st Garrison) Battalion *?

    Sibolga
    • West Sumatra and Tapanoeli (2nd Garrison) Battalion in Sibolga*?

    Medan.
    North Sumatra (1st Garrison) Battalion *?

    Pematangsiantar
    North Sumatra (22nd Garrison) Battalion *?

    Palembang
    South Sumatra Garrison Battalion *?

    Borneo

    Tarakan
    Tarakan Garrison Battalion (7th KNIL Infantry Battalion), including one MG Company *?

    Balikpapan
    6th KNIL Infantry Battalion *

    Bandjermasin
    South and East Borneo KNIL Infantry Battalion*?

    Ambon
    KNIL Molukken Garrison Battalion*?

    * 2 ATR with each MG Company of a KNIL Battalion.
    -

    Re: List of Tankbuks M.38 AT rifle equipped Battalions
    Written by Stellan Bojeruds at 30 Sep 2004 08:35:23:
    http://www.f16.parsimony.net/forum27...sages/5325.htm
    You forgot W.Borneo Bn (Pontianak) and Celebes Bn (Makassar/Manado).

    Detachement Samarinda (Borneo) had at least 1 AT rifle. Ambon Bn had at least 2.

    Stellan
    -

    Re: List of Tankbuks M.38 AT rifle equipped Battalions
    Written by George Smithson at 30 Sep 2004 11:08:46:
    http://www.f16.parsimony.net/forum27...sages/5326.htm

    >You forgot W.Borneo Bn (Pontianak)

    Yes.

    and Celebes Bn (Makassar/Manado).

    Now that did not not appear as such in the oob info I have just two KNIL companies one at Manado and one at Makassar. Did these have any ATRs?


    >Detachement Samarinda (Borneo) had at least 1 AT rifle. Ambon Bn had at least 2.

    Good to know. Thanks.

    >Stellan
    -

    Also there may have been Boys AT rifles with the Australian/British/American "Blackforce" battlegroup on Java.

    Hope this information helps.


    All the Best,

    George


    PS: Jabu, also you need to change your avatar to an image related to WWII.

    -

  8. #38
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    Hi George,
    I very thank you for help. I am very grateful for this, that you wrote so a lot of.

    I was friends long ago from John Verbeck. He helped me a bit when I asked about KNIL, or guerrillas' Indonesian. But, this was 7-8 years ago…

    I lost with him contact now. I have to finish. There in Poland is fourth morning now. In four hours I go to work.

    I will write tomorrow yet.

    >you need to change your avatar to an image related to WWII.

    Yes. But, I write very a lot of and I publish in my country... About Japanese Army between 1876-1945. And also about War in Chechnya.
    A lot of coffee, little dream...
    I am very similar now to my avatar. This avatar shows my character...
    I thank you for help once again.

    Best regards from Warsaw,
    jabu

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabu View Post
    Hi George,
    I very thank you for help. I am very grateful for this, that you wrote so a lot of.

    I was friends long ago from John Verbeck. He helped me a bit when I asked about KNIL, or guerrillas' Indonesian. But, this was 7-8 years ago…

    I lost with him contact now. I have to finish. There in Poland is fourth morning now. In four hours I go to work.

    I will write tomorrow yet.

    >you need to change your avatar to an image related to WWII.

    Yes. But, I write very a lot of and I publish in my country... About Japanese Army between 1876-1945. And also about War in Chechnya.
    A lot of coffee, little dream...
    I am very similar now to my avatar. This avatar shows my character...
    I thank you for help once again.

    Best regards from Warsaw,
    jabu
    -

    You're welcome Jabu,

    Hope you are rested and refreshed.

    Please read the PM (private message) that I sent you.


    Best Regards,

    George

    -

  10. #40
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    Hi George,
    Quote Originally Posted by George Eller View Post
    -
    Also there may have been Boys AT rifles with the Australian/British/American "Blackforce" battlegroup on Java.-
    Maybe you know the vacancy of organization rifle AT sections at Australian/British/American "Blackforce" battlegroup?

    In 1st Raider Battalion (on day February 12, 1942) had together 10 x Boys AT Rifle (Canadian production) in five AT Sections:
    One AT section (7 x enlisted and 2 x AT rifle) had Battalion’s Weapons Company, and also one AT secion had each Rifle Company (Battalion had 4 companies).

    Durning Makin Raid Carlson’s raiders used by probably two AT rifles Boys.
    Japanese reported finding after the raid: 5 x rubber boats, 15 x BAR, 3 x M1903 rifles, 24 M1 Garand automatic rifles and approx. 350 hand grenades.
    About AT rifles they do not remember…

    2nd Raider Battalion durning Guadalcanal Campaing had 15 x Boys AT rifles.
    3d and 4th Raider Battalions had (on day Sepember 24, 1942) had probably, each 6 x AT rifles (2 x rifles in Weapons Company, and 4 x rifles in HQ Company).

    At British Army durning Malayan and Burma campaigns had:
    36 x AT rifles per one infantry battalion and 12 x AT rifles per company.

    But, I dont know how many Boys AT Rifle had units from "Blackforce" battlegroup.
    Are any facts well-known in this subject?

    Best regards,
    jabu

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabu View Post
    you need to change your avatar to an image related to WWII.
    Yes. But, I write very a lot of and I publish in my country... About Japanese Army between 1876-1945. And also about War in Chechnya.
    A lot of coffee, little dream...
    I am very similar now to my avatar. This avatar shows my character...
    jabu, ww2 related avatar is one of the rules of this board, so if you already drink your coffe, please change it.
    Dziekuje!
    Regimentul 38 "Neagoe Basarab"
    Divizia 10 Infanterie


    101st Airborne

  12. #42
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    Hi Dani,
    to get to know me you pleasantly.
    It puts my answer what I sended for George (private message) several hours this:
    Hi George,
    I understand. Agreement. But, give me a bit time I - will choose some interesting avatar.

    But, this for me very heavy and difficult decision. I functioned many years on many forums from this only one avatar
    ...:cry
    All the Best,
    Jabu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani View Post
    jabu,Dziekuje!
    I mulţumesc de asemenea. I verde de la Polonia!
    jabu
    Last edited by jabu; 11-16-2007 at 06:48 AM.

  13. #43
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    Well jabu, in your case Gen. Sandworm and Firefly will have a final word!

    Cheers!
    Regimentul 38 "Neagoe Basarab"
    Divizia 10 Infanterie


    101st Airborne

  14. #44
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    Thank you,
    best regards,
    jabu

    P.S. I am already Private First Class - nicely!
    Last edited by jabu; 11-16-2007 at 07:07 AM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabu View Post
    Hi Dani,
    to get to know me you pleasantly.
    It puts my answer what I sended for George (private message) several hours this:
    Hi George,
    I understand. Agreement. But, give me a bit time I - will choose some interesting avatar.

    But, this for me very heavy and difficult decision. I functioned many years on many forums from this only one avatar...:cry
    All the Best,
    Jabu

    I mulţumesc de asemenea. I verde de la Polonia!
    jabu
    Hello Jabu and welcome to our site. In the spirit of the site we do ask that everyone that wishes an Avatar either choose one from our collection or use their own so long as it is WW2 related.

    Of course you can have some time to choose one, that is no problem, but I hope you will find one in the next few days.

    Of course there is no need to have one at all.

    Thnak you for your understanding on this.

    F-F

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