View Poll Results: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

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  • Declaring war on the United States

    23 11.22%
  • Declaring war on the U.S.S.R.

    92 44.88%
  • Giving Rommel and other top military generals the Death Penalty

    15 7.32%
  • Not taking the British out early in the war

    44 21.46%
  • Not properly preparing Germany for the war ahead

    31 15.12%
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Thread: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

  1. #331
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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    On D-Day many of the units were Ost Truppen (Ex Soviet POW's) that faced the allies as well as From other nations (many pictures of Indian troops).

    The quality of these troops was so low that the German Army had no chance to defend them in depth, so instead fixed these men to fight from fixed positions. German NCOs were ordered to shoot their own men if they tried to run away.

  2. #332
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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunky View Post
    The German forces were suffering manpower and equipment shortages in 1940, more manpower in the army on its own was not required, more equipment to standardise rather than having to rely on huge amounts of war booty to equip units.

    I would have said that the German military power in 1940, was one of the most formidable of its day, and one of the best.
    In terms of tactics on the ground yes it was formidable and one of the best, it could not win as it did 1939-1941 if it was not - never disputed that - pure equipment though - it was a mix max of captured/booty equipment that was limited to shortish campaigns, even in 1945 most of transport was reliant on horse drawn wagons (as was large amounts of artillery).

    The RAF had comparable or better aircraft especially fighters and its Fully Integrated Air Defence system was years ahead of the Germans
    The RN completely outclassed the Kreigsmarine.
    BEF was woefully under trained and equipped for combat in Europe but had some very good equipment that was better than that which the Germans had (the French also had a few better tanks but initial tactics wasted the advantage).

    I was replying to your assertion that more men would give more firepower, the German forces could not really utilise more man power on its own, it needed much more equipment especially transport to equip those extra men, units were rarely at full strength but then the units were still often short of supplies and materiel due to transport problems (lack of).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunky View Post
    Dictator, Despot, Junta, Tyrant. Warlord, what ever, He or she, dictates to you what they want, if they then didn't get what they wanted, whether their from the Banana Republic or not, they would you's force to get it, the word Dictator says it all.
    Not all dictators are aggressors on other nations, many are strict with their own people and use force or fear to control them - that does not mean they attack other nations, they tend to only attack another nation if they know they can get away with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunky View Post
    On D-Day many of the units were Ost Truppen (Ex Soviet POW's) that faced the allies as well as From other nations (many pictures of Indian troops).

    The quality of these troops was so low that the German Army had no chance to defend them in depth, so instead fixed these men to fight from fixed positions. German NCOs were ordered to shoot their own men if they tried to run away.
    The quality of these troops varied some fought well others did not, they were also employed in the East and Balkans and fought well enough (often harder than their German allies - or at least more brutally). Along the Atlantic coast from Norway to Southern France many of the German units were also poor quality and poorly equipped it was not just the Germans allies (volunteers and pressganged) who were poor quality.

    Germans had a habit of shooting troops who were caught deserting in the east as well it was not specific to the West and Normandy.
    'Amazon' Bridge
    Construction dates: 12/13 May 1944 (Operation Diadem)
    Details: 80 ft Class 30 Bailey bridge built over Rapido river under constant fire.
    The bridge was built as part of the Allies break-out of the Gustav Line.
    Work started at 5.45pm (12 May) and completed at 5.30am (13 May).
    The human cost was high; 15 sappers were killed and 57 (including 3 officers) wounded.
    Constructed by: 7th, 59th, 225th Field Companies (4th Division)

  3. #333
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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by leccy View Post
    In terms of tactics on the ground yes it was formidable and one of the best, it could not win as it did 1939-1941 if it was not - never disputed that - pure equipment though - it was a mix max of captured/booty equipment that was limited to shortish campaigns, even in 1945 most of transport was reliant on horse drawn wagons (as was large amounts of artillery).

    The RAF had comparable or better aircraft especially fighters and its Fully Integrated Air Defence system was years ahead of the Germans
    The RN completely outclassed the Kreigsmarine.
    BEF was woefully under trained and equipped for combat in Europe but had some very good equipment that was better than that which the Germans had (the French also had a few better tanks but initial tactics wasted the advantage).

    I was replying to your assertion that more men would give more firepower, the German forces could not really utilise more man power on its own, it needed much more equipment especially transport to equip those extra men, units were rarely at full strength but then the units were still often short of supplies and materiel due to transport problems (lack of).



    Not all dictators are aggressors on other nations, many are strict with their own people and use force or fear to control them - that does not mean they attack other nations, they tend to only attack another nation if they know they can get away with it.



    The quality of these troops varied some fought well others did not, they were also employed in the East and Balkans and fought well enough (often harder than their German allies - or at least more brutally). Along the Atlantic coast from Norway to Southern France many of the German units were also poor quality and poorly equipped it was not just the Germans allies (volunteers and pressganged) who were poor quality.

    Germans had a habit of shooting troops who were caught deserting in the east as well it was not specific to the West and Normandy.
    We weren't much better equipped our self's, the Artillery in 1939, although a new 25pdr had recently been designed for the field artillery and RHA, to replace both 18pdr and 13pdr guns, this was still pending large scale production, in 1939 and 1940, many units were still using 18pdr guns, only in this war, they had tyres fitted instead of the cart wheel from WW1. Our infantry was mostly equipped the same SMLE 303 rifle with the 1907 bayonet, which was used by our soldiers in WW1. Horse drawn, "War Horse", look what the Jap's did, and they only had bicycles.

    Maybe Hitler's biggest Mistake, was to to attack Poland to soon, he should have built up his military machine first, Mistake 2, not letting the German Jew's (I will call them this), joining his army has they did in WW1, given him a more powerful military unit. Mistake 3, not using the Russian's who wanted to fight on his side, the outcome in Russia could have had a different outcome. to what did happen, then on D-Day, there could have been a different outcome to this.

    As for the real outcome of D-Day, it was not that Hitler did not have a great military fighting force of his own, it was more a case of where to place them, as to where D-Day was to take place, if he had known this, it would have been "God help us".

    Or, Or was his Biggest Mistake 4, was to give Eva a good Se@@@@g to the night before, and had a lay in, well we have all been there
    Last edited by Chunky; 10-25-2013 at 04:27 PM.

  4. #334
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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunky View Post
    We weren't much better equipped our self's, the Artillery in 1939, although a new 25pdr had recently been designed for the field artillery and RHA, to replace both 18pdr and 13pdr guns, this was still pending large scale production, in 1939 and 1940, many units were still using 18pdr guns, only in this war, they had tyres fitted instead of the cart wheel from WW1. Our infantry was mostly equipped the same SMLE 303 rifle with the 1907 bayonet, which was used by our soldiers in WW1. Horse drawn, "War Horse", look what the Jap's did, and they only had bicycles.

    Maybe Hitler's biggest Mistake, was to to attack Poland to soon, he should have built up his military machine first, Mistake 2, not letting the German Jew's (I will call them this), joining his army has they did in WW1, given him a more powerful military unit. Mistake 3, not using the Russian's who wanted to fight on his side, the outcome in Russia could have had a different outcome. to what did happen, then on D-Day, there could have been a different outcome to this.

    Germany and Hitler was nearly bankrupt by Sept 1939 - Hitler needed to gain more money to keep the economy going, he did it by invading and stripping countries of just about everything. Waiting would also have just meant more of the better allied equipment would be available, obsolete equipment would have been removed from service - more troops trained and properly supplied, time was not on Hitlers side

    The Germans utilised huge amounts of foreigners including Russians, pressganged, called up and volunteers as workers and troops. The reliability was not consistent and they were not always trusted. No amount of extra manpower to fight in the field would make a difference to the abysmal transport situation or the lack of equipment and supplies.

    You claimed the German forces was one of the most formidible in 1940, I agreed on the ground it was possibly the most formidible due to tactics, but not in the sea nor possibly with aircraft - even on land the allies had many designs that were better with some of it in service, never said there was lots of them.


    As for the real outcome of D-Day, it was not that Hitler did not have a great military fighting force of his own, it was more a case of where to place them, as to where D-Day was to take place, if he had known this, it would have been "God help us".

    Even after D-Day and up till the end of the war over 300,000 sorely needed German troops were kept in Scandinavia in case the allies invaded there !!!, By 1944 Germany had no chance - Normandy was successful and a couple of days later the Soviets smashed though in the east - fighting in the West, South and East, losing allies all the time it was game over - did not matter how well the remaining Axis forces could fight.
    You seem to keep missing the points I was making
    'Amazon' Bridge
    Construction dates: 12/13 May 1944 (Operation Diadem)
    Details: 80 ft Class 30 Bailey bridge built over Rapido river under constant fire.
    The bridge was built as part of the Allies break-out of the Gustav Line.
    Work started at 5.45pm (12 May) and completed at 5.30am (13 May).
    The human cost was high; 15 sappers were killed and 57 (including 3 officers) wounded.
    Constructed by: 7th, 59th, 225th Field Companies (4th Division)

  5. #335
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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    Don't know if this point has been made before in this long thread, but if one looks beyond events such as attacking the USSR and declaring war on the USA and goes to Hitler's motivation, his biggest mistake, and that of his followers, which underlies those events was believing his own bullshit which revolved around the racial, military, technological and productive superiority of the Germans.

    Germans obviously weren't racially superior to anybody else. Such beliefs tend to end in tears, as with the Allies' belief that they were racially superior to the Japanese who duly thrashed the Allies in the early stages of the war when the defending Allies should have had the advantage but failed to make adequate preparation, in part because of the misplaced belief in some quarters that the Japanese weren't the equals of Europeans.

    The Germans weren't inherently militarily superior to the major nations which surrounded them and which Germany attacked. Indeed, Germany was militarily inferior in various respects, notably logistics. Germany turned out to be better on the battlefield in the early years of the war, which is testament to many positive features of German soldiers, sailors and airmen and the strategies and tactics of their commanders, but they weren't supermen as Hitler liked to think, any more than were the Allied service people who defeated German forces super-supermen.

    German technology and related production wasn't stunningly superior to Allied technology, be it the absence of heavy bombers from a bombing campaign initiated against Britain to the unsuccessful German attempts to develop nuclear weapons. Sure, and for example, the Tiger tank was an impressive tank, but German production of it and various other materiel and ordnance suffered from a lack of uniformity of production. Speer never managed to achieve anything like the efficiency of American production and was hampered by the idiocy, mentioned by leccy, of using forced and slave labour.

    As leccy mentioned, and as I've mentioned in various threads, the heavy German reliance on horse drawn transport demonstrated a failure of German logistics and imposed burdens on German lines of communication (e.g. fodder, blacksmiths, veterinary services, and transport to support those services) which the combustion engined Western Allies didn't experience. This is but one example of the essential inability of Germany to fight its enemies on equal terms. There are countless others, such as Germany's general lack of resources which denied it petroleum products necessary for a highly mechanised war.

    What is remarkable about Germany's military performance in WWII is that it did so well despite these deficiencies, but that is a tribute to the German service people who fought so well, not Hitler's ill-considered idiocy in getting them into an ever expanding war which ultimately Germany could not win.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  6. #336
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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    Germany was in a great depression, like many other countries in 1939, originating in the USA in 1929, with the fall in stock prices. Cities around the world were hit hard, Britain being one of them, industrial production in Britain had collapsed in by the end of 1930, unemployment went from 1 million to 2.5 million, the national hunger march took place in 1933. in the 1920s and 1930s around 200.000 unemployed men were sent to work camps, which continued until 1939. As for stripping other counties of just about everything, Hitler and Germany were not the first to do this.

    This subject is on "Hitler's Biggest Mistake?, If he had known where D-Day was to take place, then he would not have stationed 300.000 Germans in Scandinavia, then there would not have been a need for him to have POW, (PQT, poor quality troops) as part of his army. He would have had a German army, strong enough to stop us. going back to what I said in my other posts, IF he had won the battle (different outcome) in Russia by using the extra military manpower he could have had, by using the German Jew of military age, the rest working in ammunition's, which would have given him a greater fire power, then letting the Russian's who wanted to fight on his side, there would not have been a Russian's breakthrough, I say again "God help us).

    WW2 is part of our History, we can only surmise on what was Hitler's Biggest Mistake/Mistakes?.

    "Maybe one of his greatest attribute's, was to create employment, for other Countries"
    Last edited by Chunky; 10-26-2013 at 03:47 PM.

  7. #337
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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunky View Post
    Germany was in a great depression, like many other countries in 1939, originating in the USA in 1929, with the fall in stock prices. Cities around the world were hit hard, Britain being one of them, industrial production in Britain had collapsed in by the end of 1930, unemployment went from 1 million to 2.5 million, the national hunger march took place in 1933. in the 1920s and 1930s around 200.000 unemployed men were sent to work camps, which continued until 1939. As for stripping other counties of just about everything, Hitler and Germany were not the first to do this.

    This subject is on "Hitler's Biggest Mistake?, If he had known where D-Day was to take place, then he would not have stationed 300.000 Germans in Scandinavia, then there would not have been a need for him to have POW, (PQT, poor quality troops) as part of his army. He would have had a German army, strong enough to stop us. going back to what I said in my other posts, IF he had won the battle (different outcome) in Russia by using the extra military manpower he could have had, by using the German Jew of military age, the rest working in ammunition's, which would have given him a greater fire power, then letting the Russian's who wanted to fight on his side, there would not have been a Russian's breakthrough, I say again "God help us).

    WW2 is part of our History, we can only surmise on what was Hitler's Biggest Mistake/Mistakes?.

    "Maybe one of his greatest attribute's, was to create employment, for other Countries"
    Germany never had the resources to increase production of war materiel I suggest reading a very good book often quoted on forums 'Wages of Destruction' by Adam Tooze now widely recognised as the most complete book on German war production. Just taking one example 'Steel' its priority was constantly shifted between Tanks, Submarines, Munitions/other weapons with never enough to go round.

    German production and equipment was heavily reliant of production and materiel from the occupied countries - but due to German stripping those nations of materiel and manpower their production could not meet german demands (France in 1944 production was less than 25% of what it had been in 1940 for example).

    The stripping of other countries was required for Germany to actually survive, it was not done to gain wealth but to enable the economy which was failing to just continue.

    More manpower in the armed forces at the start on its own would not help if you cant supply them or arm them. Many units even in 1945 relied on war booty to equip them and I am not talking about the Volksturm (which were pretty much all equipped with captured weapons)

    Even after D-Day and Bagration those troops stayed in Scandinavia instead of being moved to the East or West - they stayed there until the German surrender in 1945 so what makes you think they would have been moved before hand - The Germans knew the assault on Europe by the Western Allies would come through France and the Low Countries.

    By June 1944 it was all over for the Axis, the only thing a failure of D-Day would have done was the iron curtain settles further westwards than it did.

    The PQT as you say were part of the Axis forces and German forces since 1941 - many German units were PQT by 1943 made up of scrapings, huge numbers of people from subjucated countries found themselves in the German armed forces as part of the regular forces and as auxillary troops, it was not just former POW's (many of which had no love for their former leaders and fought very well - better than many Germananic people units).
    'Amazon' Bridge
    Construction dates: 12/13 May 1944 (Operation Diadem)
    Details: 80 ft Class 30 Bailey bridge built over Rapido river under constant fire.
    The bridge was built as part of the Allies break-out of the Gustav Line.
    Work started at 5.45pm (12 May) and completed at 5.30am (13 May).
    The human cost was high; 15 sappers were killed and 57 (including 3 officers) wounded.
    Constructed by: 7th, 59th, 225th Field Companies (4th Division)

  8. #338
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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    A major historiographical debate about the relationship between the German economy and foreign policy decision-making was prompted in the late 1980s, when the British Marxist historian Timothy Mason claimed that an economic crisis had caused a "flight into war" in 1939. Mason’s arguments were that the German working-class was always opposed to the Nazi dictatorship; that in the over-heated German economy of the late 1930s, German workers could force employers to grant higher wages by leaving for another firm that would grant the desired wage increases; that this was a form of political resistance and this resistance forced Adolf Hitler to go to war in 1939. Thus, the outbreak of the Second World War was caused by structural economic problems, a "flight into war" imposed by a domestic crisis. The key aspects of the crisis were according to Mason, a shaky economic recovery was threatened by a rearmament program that was overwhelming the economy and in which the Nazi regime's nationalist bluster limited its options. In this way, Mason articulated a Primat der Innenpolitik ("primacy of domestic politics") view of World War II’s origins through the concept of social imperialism Mason's Primat der Innenpolitik thesis was in marked contrast to the Primat der Außenpolitik ("primacy of foreign politics) usually used to explain World War II. In Mason’s opinion, German foreign policy was driven by domestic political considerations, and the launch of World War II in 1939 was best understood as a "barbaric variant of social imperialism".

    Mason argued that "Nazi Germany was always bent at some time upon a major war of expansion" However, Mason argued that the timing of a such a war was determined by domestic political pressures, especially as relating to a failing economy, and had nothing to do with what Hitler wanted. In Mason's view in the period between 1936–41, it was the state of the German economy, and not Hitler's "will" or "intentions" that was the most important determinate on German decision-making on foreign policy. Mason argued that the Nazi leaders were deeply haunted by the November Revolution of 1918, and was most unwilling to see any fall in working class living standards out of the fear that it might provoke another November Revolution. According to Mason, by 1939, the "overheating" of the German economy caused by rearmament, the failure of various rearmament plans produced by the shortages of skilled workers, industrial unrest caused by the breakdown of German social policies, and the sharp drop in living standards for the German working class forced Hitler into going to war at a time and place not of his choosing. Mason contended that when faced with the deep socio-economic crisis the Nazi leadership had decided to embark upon a ruthless "smash and grab" foreign policy of seizing territory in Eastern Europe which could be pitilessly plundered to support living standards in Germany Mason described German foreign policy as driven by an opportunistic "next victim" syndrome after the Anschluss, in which the "promiscuity of aggressive intentions" was nurtured by every successful foreign policy move. In Mason’s opinion, the decision to sign the German-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact with the Soviet Union and to attack Poland and the running of the risk of a war with Britain and France were the abandonment by Hitler of his foreign policy programme outlined in Mein Kampf forced on him by his need to stop a collapsing German economy by seizing territory abroad to be plundered.

    Mason’s leading critic was the British economic historian Richard Overy. Overy argued against Mason's thesis, maintaining that, although Germany was faced with economic problems in 1939, the extent of these problems cannot explain aggression against Poland and that the reasons for the outbreak of war were due to the choices made by the Nazi leadership. For Overy, the problem with Mason's thesis was that it rested on the assumption that in a way not shown by records, information was passed on to Hitler about the Reich's economic problems. Overy argued that there was a difference between economic pressures induced by the problems of the Four Year Plan and economic motives to seize raw materials, industry and foreign reserves of neighboring states as a way of accelerating the Four Year Plan. Overy asserted that the repressive capacity of the German state as a way of dealing with domestic unhappiness was somewhat downplayed by Mason. Finally, Overy argued that there is considerable evidence that the German state felt they could master the economic problems of rearmament; as one civil servant put it in January 1940 "we have already mastered so many difficulties in the past, that here too, if one or other raw material became extremely scarce, ways and means will always yet be found to get out of a fix".

    Another part of the new German economy was massive rearmament, with the goal being to expand the Versailles 100,000-strong German Army into a force of millions. The Four-Year Plan was discussed in the controversial Hossbach Memorandum, which provides the "minutes" from one of Hitler's briefings.
    Nevertheless, the war came and although the Four-Year Plan technically expired in 1940, Hermann Göring had built up a power base in the "Office of the Four-Year Plan" that effectively controlled all German economic and production matters by this point in time. In 1942 the growing burdens of the war and the death of Todt saw the economy move to a full war economy under the efficient leadership of Albert Speer.

    Initially, the outbreak of World War II did not bring about any large changes in the German economy. Germany had spent six years preparing for war, and a large portion of the economy was already devoted to military production. However, rationing was introduced immediately in 1939. Britain immediately put their economy on a war footing, Germany resisted equivalent measures until later in the war. They were ideologically opposed to women participating in the work force. Unlike most other governments, the Nazis did not increase direct and personal taxes by any significant amount in order to fund the war. The top personal income tax rate in 1941 was 13.7% in Germany as opposed to 23.7% in Great Britain.

    Germany never had the resources to increase production of war materiel I suggest reading a very good book often quoted on forums 'Wages of Destruction' by Adam Tooze now widely recognised as the most complete book on German war production. Just taking one example 'Steel' its priority was constantly shifted between Tanks, Submarines, Munitions/other weapons with never enough to go round.

    (“Wages of Destruction” Penguin Books, by Adam Tooze, is a (novel) account. Of the Third Reich Wages?. I have not read this book, so I can only make my own interpretation. I ask myself, is it a (novel) account, meaning, a new look as to what did happen, or is it a (novel) fictional account on what did happen).

    By June 1944 it was all over for the Axis, the only thing a failure of D-Day would have done was the iron curtain settles further westwards than it did.

    (Mistake, Russia (iron curtain), would not have existed IF the German’s had! Won the battle in Russia, has I have said in my other post’s, by using more military fire power, which they could had. As for the German troop’s left in Scandinavia, you have to the question to what reason/purpose, they were left there), another mistake?

    Remember the cost!!!!

    Britain settles WW2 debts to Allies. By paying two final instalments before the close of 2006, the Treasury has said. The payments of £42.5 million to America and £11.6 million to Canada are the final of 50 instalments. Hitler’s Greatest Mistake?/Bad luck. was not to have had this opportunity, of borrowing, IF he had!!!.
    Last edited by Chunky; 10-28-2013 at 04:53 PM.

  9. #339
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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    Wages of Destruction is a serious history book, and a very good one. Highly recommended.
    I have neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent and the merely unfortunate - Curtis E LeMay

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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    This all I could find on it, and it uses the word (novel) account). IE, a book length story. A fictional prose narrative of considerable length, typically having a plot that is unfolded by the actions, speech, and thoughts of the characters. A fictitious prose narrative of book length, typically representing character and action with some degree of realism:


    Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy appeared with Penguin in 2006. It provides a (novel) account of the Third Reich viewed from the perspective of the regime’s efforts to harness the German economy for its bid for continental hegemony. It won both the Longman and Wolfson prizes, was shortlisted for the Duff Cooper and H Soz Kult prizes, was an Economist book of the year and has been translated into German, Italian, Portugese and Bulgarian. In Germany it has been adopted by the Bundeszentrale fuer politische Bildung.
    Last edited by Chunky; 10-28-2013 at 04:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunky View Post
    ...
    Germany resisted equivalent measures until later in the war. They were ideologically opposed to women participating in the work force.
    ...
    This is largely a false assertion according to Tooze. He contends that women already were integral to the Germany economy and already employed in large numbers in agriculture, so they could not simply be shifted to industrial production...



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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    This is largely a false assertion according to Tooze. He contends that women already were integral to the Germany economy and already employed in large numbers in agriculture, so they could not simply be shifted to industrial production...
    Hi Nickdfresh, we cant get every thing right, even today we are treated like mushroom's

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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunky View Post
    This all I could find on it, and it uses the word (novel) account). IE, a book length story. A fictional prose narrative of considerable length, typically having a plot that is unfolded by the actions, speech, and thoughts of the characters. A fictitious prose narrative of book length, typically representing character and action with some degree of realism:


    Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy appeared with Penguin in 2006. It provides a (novel) account of the Third Reich viewed from the perspective of the regime’s efforts to harness the German economy for its bid for continental hegemony. It won both the Longman and Wolfson prizes, was shortlisted for the Duff Cooper and H Soz Kult prizes, was an Economist book of the year and has been translated into German, Italian, Portugese and Bulgarian. In Germany it has been adopted by the Bundeszentrale fuer politische Bildung.
    Maybe looking a little harder since their are hundreds of listings for it for sale which give accurate descriptions of it - if you dont wish to pay though you could always read it here

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/20986873/A...e-Nazi-Economy
    Last edited by leccy; 10-28-2013 at 05:57 PM.
    'Amazon' Bridge
    Construction dates: 12/13 May 1944 (Operation Diadem)
    Details: 80 ft Class 30 Bailey bridge built over Rapido river under constant fire.
    The bridge was built as part of the Allies break-out of the Gustav Line.
    Work started at 5.45pm (12 May) and completed at 5.30am (13 May).
    The human cost was high; 15 sappers were killed and 57 (including 3 officers) wounded.
    Constructed by: 7th, 59th, 225th Field Companies (4th Division)

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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    [QUOTE=leccy;190674]Maybe looking a little harder since their are hundreds of listings for it for sale which give accurate descriptions of it - if you dont wish to pay though you could always read it here

    Hi leccy, I just typed in Adam Tooze, and the first thing that came up was: "Adam Tooze/Department of History". which said on Wages of Destruction:

    Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy appeared with Penguin in 2006. It provides a (novel) account of the Third Reich viewed from the perspective of the regime’s efforts to harness the German economy for its bid for continental hegemony. It won both the Longman and Wolfson prizes, was shortlisted for the Duff Cooper and H Soz Kult prizes, was an Economist book of the year and has been translated into German, Italian, Portugese and Bulgarian. In Germany it has been adopted by the Bundeszentrale fuer politische Bildung.

    To me, I have no need to look a little harder, unless the statement made by the Department of History, his false/lie, in their information on Wages of Destruction.

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    Default Re: Hitler's Biggest Mistake?

    [QUOTE=Chunky;190676]
    Quote Originally Posted by leccy View Post
    Maybe looking a little harder since their are hundreds of listings for it for sale which give accurate descriptions of it - if you dont wish to pay though you could always read it here

    Hi leccy, I just typed in Adam Tooze, and the first thing that came up was: "Adam Tooze/Department of History". which said on Wages of Destruction:

    Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy appeared with Penguin in 2006. It provides a (novel) account of the Third Reich viewed from the perspective of the regime’s efforts to harness the German economy for its bid for continental hegemony. It won both the Longman and Wolfson prizes, was shortlisted for the Duff Cooper and H Soz Kult prizes, was an Economist book of the year and has been translated into German, Italian, Portugese and Bulgarian. In Germany it has been adopted by the Bundeszentrale fuer politische Bildung.

    To me, I have no need to look a little harder, unless the statement made by the Department of History, his false/lie, in their information on Wages of Destruction.
    Novel you took to mean one thing, it also has a different meaning.

    Novel - New or of a type unseen before - It was the first book to look at the whole of the German economy and background using the original German sources.

    You kept asserting that more manpower equalled more equipped troops - I pointed out that Germany could not have equipped nor supplied more troops.

    During Barbarossa the Axis reserve was not used so no need for more manpower then (many units were equipped with Czech, French and British vehicles and equipment from other occupied nations much of it not suitable but used to make up for the shortfalls of German production ability).

    Units in 1941 (indeed even in 1940) outstripped their supply lines, by the time the extra manpower could have been used in late 1941 (dont forget only a relatively small potion of the 6 million Jews would have been available and fit for service) the Germans were struggling to provide enough horses and vehicles to keep even the reduced forces supplied and equipped - more manpower would do nothing except cause greater supply problems (and the amount available at that particular time would not have been very great).

    The Germans could not increase production (to supply or equip the extra troops) significantly as the economy was such a precarious balancing act that to increase production in one area they had to decrease in another due to lack of steel, coal and oil (the main resources but copper and aluminium as well as others had to be rationed), allied bombing had a large effect on production and transportation as well despite many claims.

    The Germans lost in Normandy and Bagration as they had too few mobile troops to counter, too little firepower (artillery and armour), no significant naval force and too little airpower (there were in the east too many units that were Div's on paper only, being undermanned and under equipped, in the West they were heavily reliant on captured artillery and even tanks captured in 1939/40 to equip the static divisions that could not be provided with their own transport).

    No matter how bad the situation became for the Axis (they pulled troops from every other theatre as and when they decided they needed them more) the forces in Scandinavia stayed (on their surrender in 1945 a garrison of 400,000 was in Norway and over 200,000 in Denmark), Norway saw little fighting at all - those troops were kept to fight an imaginary invasion after the scares the British commando raids gave (Like Vaasgo in 1941).
    'Amazon' Bridge
    Construction dates: 12/13 May 1944 (Operation Diadem)
    Details: 80 ft Class 30 Bailey bridge built over Rapido river under constant fire.
    The bridge was built as part of the Allies break-out of the Gustav Line.
    Work started at 5.45pm (12 May) and completed at 5.30am (13 May).
    The human cost was high; 15 sappers were killed and 57 (including 3 officers) wounded.
    Constructed by: 7th, 59th, 225th Field Companies (4th Division)

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