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Thread: Commonwealth

  1. #1
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    Default Commonwealth

    Just to keep the mods happy, this is in a new topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by IRONMAN
    Quote Originally Posted by WildBoar
    The Commonwealth didn't dissolve the Empire did and then only in the 20th Century and most countries wanted to keep their association alongside having their Independance.SO the Commonwealth still exists.
    "Commonwealth", in relation to britain, politically means nations taxed and militarily protected by Britain, and which are ruled by the British Crown. The "commonwealth" applies to nations that Britain ruled by threat of force and which were taxed by Britain, whether they wanted to be or not. These nations supposedly shared a "common wealth" of British resources (lol - they really mean British wealth through taxation eh?). Today, England controls Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and the Faulkland Islands by conquest only. Australia, South Africa, Canada, New Zealand, Jamaica, etc are no longer under British political rule, and have not been for a long time. Britain has no has any willing subject nations.

    The Queen of England has traditionally been the monarch of British commonwealth nations. Today, she is a figurhead only with no direct political power whatsoever, and rules no-one. All that changed with the coming of the 20th century, as I stated previously. In 1901 Australia created it's own constitution, putting an end to British monarchy there. In Canada, Queen Elizabeth II remains as monarch of Canada only as a figurehead, and has no political power whatsoever there, or anywhere at all. Prior to or at the beginning of the 20th century, this scenario took place in every nation that had been considered a British "commonwealth" nation. The British crown in no longer a ruler, and no longer a monarch over nations outside the British Isles. So my friend...

    There is no longer a British "commonwealth".
    Totally wrong I'm afraid. From the Commonwealth website (www.thecommonwealth.org):
    The Commonwealth is a voluntary association of 53 independent sovereign states consulting and co-operating in the common interests of their peoples and in the promotion of international understanding and world peace.

    The association has no constitution or charter, but members commit themselves to the statements of beliefs set out by Heads of Government. The basis of these is the Declaration of Commonwealth Principles, agreed at Singapore in 1971, and reaffirmed in the Harare Declaration of 1991. The fundamental political values underpinning the Commonwealth include democracy and good governance, respect for human rights and gender equality, the rule of law, and sustainable economic and social development.

    HM Queen Elizabeth II is the Head of the Commonwealth and is recognised as the 'symbol of their free association' by members of the association. Among other things, Her Majesty attends the biennial Commonwealth summits or CHOGMs and the Commonwealth Games which are held every four years. At the Edinburgh summit in 1997, for the first time, she addressed the opening ceremony. On every Commonwealth Day a special message from the Queen is broadcast in all member countries.
    What you seem to be doing here is confusing the British Empire, the short lived British Republic under Cromwell from 1649-1660, and the modern Commonwealth.

    Your statement about the Queen only being the head of state of Canada is also totally wrong - she is head of state of:
    Australia
    Canada
    New Zealand
    Jamaica
    Barbados
    The Bahamas
    Grenada
    Saint Lucia
    Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
    Antigua and Barbuda
    Belize
    Saint Kitts and Nevis
    Papua New Guinea
    Solomon Islands
    Tuvalu
    (I may have missed one or two)

    The Queen in her role as head of state of the UK is also head of state of the various British Dependent Territories (as the British Empire is now known in these politically correct days). These territories are:
    Anguilla
    Bermuda
    British Antarctic Territory
    British Indian Ocean Territory
    British Virgin Islands
    Cayman Islands
    Falklands Islands, and Dependencies
    Gibraltar
    Montserrat
    Pitcairn
    Henderson
    Ducie, and Oeno Islands
    St. Helena and Dependencies
    The Sovereign Base areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia (Cyprus)
    Turks and Caicos Islands

    The Government would love to get shot of these (with the possible exception of the Cyprus bases) since they contribute nothing to the UK except bills - and for exactly the same reason these territories generally want to remain British. Kind of blows out your statement that the Falkland Islands are the only British overseas territory.
    Oh, and they aren't ours by right of conquest - there was a British settlement there before the Spanish ever arrived which was kicked out by a Spanish invasion fleet in 1770. It almost led to war then, but the Spanish let us return instead. After Argentine independence, they tried to claim the Falklands as well, on the grounds that the Spanish used to own them (a claim the UK had never accepted). Such Argentine fortifications as there were got destroyed by the USS Lexington in 1831, which then declared the islands "free from government", with the remaining colonists being removed by the RN in 1833 after they murdered the Argentine governor. They have been under continuous British administration since then, except for the duration of the 1982 occupation.

    I'm getting curious as to why you're always attacking the British...

  2. #2
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    I'm getting curious as to why you're always attacking the British - have you got some sort of complex about them?
    i guess this will lead to a flame war.

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    Wasn't intended to, hence edited slightly. Was hoping to get an actual answer rather than the usual inaccurate comments.

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    i hope countries of commonwealth will have an independence in a time ,liberty for them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin Schätzer(argentina)
    i hope countries of commonwealth will have an independence in a time ,liberty for them!
    Quote Originally Posted by pdf27
    The Commonwealth is a voluntary association of 53 independent sovereign states consulting and co-operating in the common interests of their peoples and in the promotion of international understanding and world peace.
    For your guidance Erwin, 'voluntary' means voluntario in Spanish.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuts
    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin Schätzer(argentina)
    i hope countries of commonwealth will have an independence in a time ,liberty for them!
    Quote Originally Posted by pdf27
    The Commonwealth is a voluntary association of 53 independent sovereign states consulting and co-operating in the common interests of their peoples and in the promotion of international understanding and world peace.
    For your guidance Erwin, 'voluntary' means voluntario in Spanish.
    oh,maybe the leaders of the countries,want to be commonwealth,but people from australia,whales and i hope more,want to have independence of the commonwealth.

    i have friends of all the world

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin Schätzer(argentina)
    oh,maybe the leaders of the countries,want to be commonwealth,but people from australia,whales and i hope more,want to have independence of the commonwealth.

    i have friends of all the world
    Australia had a referendum recently where they voted overwhelmingly to remain within the Commonwealth and, more interestingly, to keep the Queen as head of state.

    Wales is not an independent country, then again, it has a certain degree of self governance. Not many people in Wales want a complete break from Great Britain.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin Schätzer(argentina)
    oh,maybe the leaders of the countries,want to be commonwealth,but people from australia,whales and i hope more,want to have independence of the commonwealth.

    i have friends of all the world
    You are still in a state of confusion as to what the Commonwealth is.

    Being a member of the Commonwealth does not necessarily mean that country will have the same head of state.

    Some countries have left the Commonwealth and returned, some ejected and then permitted to rejoin.

    It is run as committee and on commonly affirmed principles.

    It is independent of the British government and the decision as to whether any particular country remains in may be taken by other member states voting it out, eg Rhodesia, or by that country's own government.

    No state would remain a member of this 'club' if it were costing them money or freedoms !

  9. #9

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    Yes, most people here think that if your apart of the Commonwealth then your are under Britains rule or som. But that is totally wrong. The Commonwealth is like the EU, an organization that has some background relation to each other (british colonial rule) and they meet together to discuss some things. There are maybe some privileages in joining the Commonwealth. I think South Africa is still in the Commonwealth.

    If youre still confused I suggest that you take a look here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Commonwealth

    Quote Originally Posted by pdf27
    Just to keep the mods happy, this is in a new topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by IRONMAN
    Quote Originally Posted by WildBoar
    The Commonwealth didn't dissolve the Empire did and then only in the 20th Century and most countries wanted to keep their association alongside having their Independance.SO the Commonwealth still exists.
    "Commonwealth", in relation to britain, politically means nations taxed and militarily protected by Britain, and which are ruled by the British Crown. The "commonwealth" applies to nations that Britain ruled by threat of force and which were taxed by Britain, whether they wanted to be or not. These nations supposedly shared a "common wealth" of British resources (lol - they really mean British wealth through taxation eh?). Today, England controls Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and the Faulkland Islands by conquest only. Australia, South Africa, Canada, New Zealand, Jamaica, etc are no longer under British political rule, and have not been for a long time. Britain has no has any willing subject nations.

    The Queen of England has traditionally been the monarch of British commonwealth nations. Today, she is a figurhead only with no direct political power whatsoever, and rules no-one. All that changed with the coming of the 20th century, as I stated previously. In 1901 Australia created it's own constitution, putting an end to British monarchy there. In Canada, Queen Elizabeth II remains as monarch of Canada only as a figurehead, and has no political power whatsoever there, or anywhere at all. Prior to or at the beginning of the 20th century, this scenario took place in every nation that had been considered a British "commonwealth" nation. The British crown in no longer a ruler, and no longer a monarch over nations outside the British Isles. So my friend...

    There is no longer a British "commonwealth".
    Totally wrong I'm afraid. From the Commonwealth website (www.thecommonwealth.org):
    The Commonwealth is a voluntary association of 53 independent sovereign states consulting and co-operating in the common interests of their peoples and in the promotion of international understanding and world peace.

    The association has no constitution or charter, but members commit themselves to the statements of beliefs set out by Heads of Government. The basis of these is the Declaration of Commonwealth Principles, agreed at Singapore in 1971, and reaffirmed in the Harare Declaration of 1991. The fundamental political values underpinning the Commonwealth include democracy and good governance, respect for human rights and gender equality, the rule of law, and sustainable economic and social development.

    HM Queen Elizabeth II is the Head of the Commonwealth and is recognised as the 'symbol of their free association' by members of the association. Among other things, Her Majesty attends the biennial Commonwealth summits or CHOGMs and the Commonwealth Games which are held every four years. At the Edinburgh summit in 1997, for the first time, she addressed the opening ceremony. On every Commonwealth Day a special message from the Queen is broadcast in all member countries.
    What you seem to be doing here is confusing the British Empire, the short lived British Republic under Cromwell from 1649-1660, and the modern Commonwealth.

    Your statement about the Queen only being the head of state of Canada is also totally wrong - she is head of state of:
    Australia
    Canada
    New Zealand
    Jamaica
    Barbados
    The Bahamas
    Grenada
    Saint Lucia
    Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
    Antigua and Barbuda
    Belize
    Saint Kitts and Nevis
    Papua New Guinea
    Solomon Islands
    Tuvalu
    (I may have missed one or two)

    The Queen in her role as head of state of the UK is also head of state of the various British Dependent Territories (as the British Empire is now known in these politically correct days). These territories are:
    Anguilla
    Bermuda
    British Antarctic Territory
    British Indian Ocean Territory
    British Virgin Islands
    Cayman Islands
    Falklands Islands, and Dependencies
    Gibraltar
    Montserrat
    Pitcairn
    Henderson
    Ducie, and Oeno Islands
    St. Helena and Dependencies
    The Sovereign Base areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia (Cyprus)
    Turks and Caicos Islands

    The Government would love to get shot of these (with the possible exception of the Cyprus bases) since they contribute nothing to the UK except bills - and for exactly the same reason these territories generally want to remain British. Kind of blows out your statement that the Falkland Islands are the only British overseas territory.
    Oh, and they aren't ours by right of conquest - there was a British settlement there before the Spanish ever arrived which was kicked out by a Spanish invasion fleet in 1770. It almost led to war then, but the Spanish let us return instead. After Argentine independence, they tried to claim the Falklands as well, on the grounds that the Spanish used to own them (a claim the UK had never accepted). Such Argentine fortifications as there were got destroyed by the USS Lexington in 1831, which then declared the islands "free from government", with the remaining colonists being removed by the RN in 1833 after they murdered the Argentine governor. They have been under continuous British administration since then, except for the duration of the 1982 occupation.

    I'm getting curious as to why you're always attacking the British...
    Don't forget we're letting the Blue-on-blue machine lease Diego Garcia from us.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Commonwealth

    Quote Originally Posted by crabtastic
    Don't forget we're letting the Blue-on-blue machine lease Diego Garcia from us.
    I thought (correct me if I'm wrong) that Diego Garcia is technically part of the "British Indian Ocean Territory" that I already mentioned, along with several other tiny islands who've seen the results of independence for countries like Fiji and decided they'd rather stay part of the Empire...

  12. #12
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    This is an interesting MoD site listing some of the peoples of the (then) Empire and Commonwealth who fought in WWII, and their exploits.

    http://www.mod.uk/wewerethere/

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Commonwealth

    Quote Originally Posted by pdf27
    Quote Originally Posted by crabtastic
    Don't forget we're letting the Blue-on-blue machine lease Diego Garcia from us.
    I thought (correct me if I'm wrong) that Diego Garcia is technically part of the "British Indian Ocean Territory" that I already mentioned, along with several other tiny islands who've seen the results of independence for countries like Fiji and decided they'd rather stay part of the Empire...
    Off the top of my head, I believe that you are right. However, we have leased Diego Garcia to the USAF/USN (the blue-on-blue machine, geddit?) to use as a strategic airbase.

    IIRC, either us or them forcibly evicted the inhabitants of said island to make way for the airbase, and occasionally they still kick up enough of a fuss about it to get 1/2" in the papers.

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    most of gibraltar population is from uk or spain???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin Schätzer(argentina)
    most of gibraltar population is from uk or spain???
    Good website here: http://www.gibraltar.gi/info/gibralt...al_history.asp

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibraltar Tourist Office
    It is essential, however, to establish from the outset exactly who the people of Gibraltar are. When the Rock fell to an Anglo-Dutch force in 1704 during the War of the Spanish Succession, almost all its approximately 4000 Spanish inhabitants left for the neighbouring parts of Spain. Immigration from other Mediterranean regions then took place, with incomers from Malta, Genoa, and Portugal, among others, settling on the Rock. It was formally ceded by Spain to Britain under Article X of the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713. Eight years later a count of civilians able to bear arms was taken and this revealed that 45 were English, 96 were Spaniards and above 169 were Genoese. This Genoese element supplied a vital contribution towards what was to make a Gibraltarian. By 1753 the civilian population had grown to 1816 persons, the main elements in which were 597 Genoese, 575 Jews and 351 British inhabitants. This British component were mainly merchants, who arrived on the Rock to service the needs of the military, and who soon recognised the importance of the place as a trading post from which to advance northwards into the Iberian peninsula, southwards towards Africa and east into the Mediterranean.

    The first real census of inhabitants was taken in February 1777. It stands as testimony to the agglomeration of nationalities that have made the modern day Gibraltarian. The total number of civilians was 3201, of these 1832 were Roman Catholics, the rest were British Protestants. The majority of the Roman Catholics were classified either as natives (845), as Genoese and Savoyards (672), and as Spaniards (134). Other minor Catholic groups included English, Irish, Minorcans, Portuguese and French. It is significant to note the appearance of this 'native' element in the registers of 1777, containing the implicit recognition of the birth of the Gibraltarian. Dr Howes concluded from his researches that 'the basic element in what has become the Gibraltarian is the Genoese', conceding at the same time the importance of other groupings, namely the Spaniards, Jews and British.
    So the basic answer is neither - they're mainly Italians by extraction.

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