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Thread: New Film on Dunkirk

  1. #31
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    So anyone who would substantially disagree with you is a troll? Since when is one’s opinion based on the facts at hand, trolling? If you disagree then state your position in a rational manner.

    I am pretty sure that I am being ghosted at this point. This is pc gone amock. I wonder are you academics?

    Again Dunkirk was not a Victory or a Stalemate, it was a loss. Now if you wish to say it was not as big a loss as it might have been, I understand. After the Germans punched a hole in the American lines during the battle of the bulge, the American rallied, fought back and unfortunately let 200,000 German soldiers escape. Was this considering a victory for the Germans? I could go on but there is no way to view Dunkirk as any thing other than a defeat.

    And please no more person attacks. I don’t call you a troll because your view may not be akin to my own. All you do is weaken your position when you resort to such tactics.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    [QUOTE=Eastwind;198063]So anyone who would substantially disagree with you is a troll? Since when is one’s opinion based on the facts at hand, trolling? If you disagree then state your position in a rational manner.

    If you are posting in reply to me Mr Eastwind, My reference to Trolling was not a reprimand, or a label. It was to inform you that your posting style could be taken that way. You demand that your assertions ,and opinions be taken at face value without citation, but reject another poster's comments out of hand. and now you cry foul as well. Your social interactions are perhaps less than polished, so some neighborly advice was given. Accept it as it was meant. This site is not a Debating Society, it is a place where people can discuss amicably, the various topics available. This is all here for the members enjoyment, that includes you. I've been here a long time, and enjoy the things I see here for the most part. So relax, and enjoy yourself too.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    Why are you making this personal? Your repeated use of the word “you” is a strong indication that this has become personal. Why? It is not personal. We are having a conversation. If you disagree, state your position. Why am I mistaken, show me, do not lecture me as to how I should post. Where are the facts of your rebuttal?

    I have many friends with whom I disagree and we are friends because it is not personal. We discuss ideas. Present your case.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    Here let’s bring this home: Dunkirk was indicative of the British ground effort in Europe. It is not negative to recite the facts. For example, just one of many, the Brits were late getting off the beach June 6th and this afforded the enemy time to organize a potent counter attack. In the big picture, where did the Brits make significant contributions to the land war? What major battles did they win? I have acknowledged that is was good that they got their troops off the beach at Dunkirk. But to what end? I can not see Dunkirk as anything less that a defeat. One in which they failed to seize their objective. If I am mistaken, show me where I have missed the mark.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    I am guessing that you are addressing me, Mr. Eastwind, and at this point I would suggest that you are taking this all far too seriously. I did say that this is not a Debating society, so repeatedly attempting to steer this towards being a debate will be fruitless. If all you seek is to force a viewpoint, or foster a contentious timber in this Thread, you do yourself no service. chill, and enjoy, that's all anyone has to do here.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastwind View Post
    It looks like the “moderator” is political correct and will not publish my reply as it may not align with their point of view. To the moderator I say is your position so tenuous it will not withstand debate?
    Just for your own edification,Moderators have no part in what you as a member choose to post. There is no Moderator, or Admin approval required prior to a post being published to the membership, and guests.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastwind View Post
    In fact, outside of North Africa, in what major land battles did the British play a pivotal role? They were late on DDay held up by light resistance at the beach. More later.....
    Quite right!

    The lousy, weak, and cowardly Brits did bugger all for all of WWII.

    Mostly they just sat in their island home, sipping tea and munching on buttered crumpets dripping with honey, while waiting for the USA to save them from the Nazi hordes assaulting their land.

    Oh, except for the first couple of years while the British were the only ones fighting the Nazis, on land, in the air, and on the seas.

    Still, apart from that, which kept the Nazis at bay while Stalin and Hitler carved up Europe and the Americans kept out of the war while Ford and GM and sundry other American capitalists profited marvellously from supplying both sides in the European War until the Japanese stuffed it up by attacking America and depriving American capitalists of their profits from Manchuria etc, the Brits did bugger all after December 1941, apart from the odd bit of annoyance to the Axis powers by sinking their ships, bombing and eventually invading their homelands, and otherwise doing nothing of consequence to bring about the downfall of the Axis powers.

    Upon reflection, I can't see why you or anyone else would bother with paying any attention to Britain's brief (1939-45) compared with America's long (effectively 1942-45) involvement in WWII, never mind the trivial contribution by the Soviets.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  8. #38
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    Indeed! everyone knows that one never mixes Butter with honey on a Crumpet. Bad Form I say!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  9. #39
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    Quote Originally Posted by tankgeezer View Post
    Indeed! everyone knows that one never mixes Butter with honey on a Crumpet. Bad Form I say!
    May be bad form, but MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM - Forbidden honey butter crumpet!



    Which, of course, the Brits had tons of during their easy war with no civilian rationing etc as they kept all their armed forces at home while everyone else fought on their behalf.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  10. #40
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastwind View Post
    Again, where did the British play a pivotal role in the land war in Europe?
    Would you like to describe how the land war in Europe would have developed successfully in favour of America as the sole belligerent invading the Continent, starting with the invasion of Sicily, with no contribution from British land, sea and air forces?

    Perhaps you could also expand on how the Allied air superiority necessary for the success of D Day and subsequent operations could have been achieved and maintained without any contribution from the RAF?

    Similarly, for the RN on the water.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastwind View Post
    What major battles are attributed to the British?
    The Battle of Britain, which was a turning point which preserved Britain from German invasion and allowed the USA and other Allies to launch the Allied invasion of Western Europe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eastwind View Post
    Their contribution on DDay was absent or minimal at best
    You seem to be under the serious misapprehension that WWII started with D Day; that only America did anything on and after D Day; and that everything that mattered from then on was done by US land forces in Western Europe.

    It's not necessary to go beyond the preceding statement to show how little you know.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  11. #41
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastwind View Post
    How many countries celebrate a military defeat?
    Australia. Gallipoli.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  12. #42
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastwind View Post
    Their contribution on DDay was absent or minimal at best
    How many beaches were the British responsible for? How many was the US responsible for?

  13. #43
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastwind View Post
    ... One in which they failed to seize their objective. If I am mistaken, show me where I have missed the mark.
    I think the mark goes sailing over your head with obtuse, over-generalizations like that. You tell us: what was the British "objective" at Dunkirk? What was the German one?

  14. #44
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    Bonjour à tous.
    I just happened to look on here in order to impress someone by using RS’s smart quote by Montesquieu, and found myself reading some of the posts on this thread.
    Regarding: the smiley-faced Tommy, I wouldn’t disagree with much of what has been stated. However, I would ad (if it hasn’t been said already) that not all of the British troops had had contact with the advancing German forces when Gort ordered the retreat to Dunkirk. Also, many had weathered the worst winter in Europe for many years and were, perhaps, relieved to be heading home. After all, the British were not in love with the idea of being under the command of the French.
    Arguably, those queuing on the mole would have been quite relieved at the prospect of getting on the next ship. Add to this the banter which most soldiers in most armies turn to when things aren’t running according to plan, and you have occasion for smiling. Furthermore, one might argue that he was smiling at the prospect of getting his leg over (I’ll translate that for Nick: getting laid) when he gets back home.

    Finally, I must thank the wind from the East (with a polite fart) for affording you all the opportunity to rally-round-the-flag, so to speak, and support your poor beleaguered British colleagues.
    A+
    32B
    p.s. My sister hated the film. She said it made them look as if they were running away.


    "Although God cannot alter the past, Historians can"


    Samuel Butler


  15. #45
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    Default Re: New Film on Dunkirk

    Quote Originally Posted by 32Bravo View Post
    p.s. My sister hated the film. She said it made them look as if they were running away.
    I can't think of any argument to contradict your sister's assessment.

    Dunkirk is probably unique in having such a large body of defeated troops massed for successful evacuation. Greece was a bit similar, but less well organised, and some of those troops went on to fight shortly after in Crete where they punished the invading Germans before being defeated again.

    Alas, it didn't happen in Singapore or the Philippines where the British Commonwealth and US lost substantial forces which, had they been evacuated with anything remotely like the success at Dunkirk, possibly would have impeded Japan's subsequent south-eastern thrust and certainly aided the Allies' subsequent north-western offensive against Japan.

    I say 'possibly' because the fact remains that the Malayan defence and more so the Philippines defence tied up Japanese troops and logistics and prevented them being used further east, which in turn ensured that any intention to invade Australia and the eventual Operation FS to move towards Guadalcanal etc had time for the growth of Allied forces in Australia and elsewhere to resist that thrust.

    If Singapore and or the Philippines had been evacuated similarly to Dunkirk with huge numbers of Allied troops, with at best some small arms and occasional machine guns, the only useful destination was Australia where neither the Australians nor the early stages of the American build up in Australia had any prospect of having the logistical resources to make any offensive use of them until early to mid-1943, by which time the Japanese had been repulsed on Guadalcanal and eastern New Guinea. Those evacuated troops would more likely have been a logistical burden until they could be re-trained and re-equipped. Nonetheless, those extra troops would have been very useful from mid-1943 onwards, whether as offensive troops or garrison troops in Australia to release other forces for offensive action.

    So, with due respect to your sister's accurate opinion, it still holds true that it's not a bad thing to run away and live to fight another day.
    Last edited by Rising Sun*; 10-02-2018 at 09:21 AM.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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