Türk porno yayini yapan http://www.smfairview.com ve http://www.idoproxy.com adli siteler rokettube videolarini da HD kalitede yayinlayacagini acikladi. Ayrica porno indir ozelligiyle de http://www.mysticinca.com adli porno sitesi devreye girdi.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 27 of 27

Thread: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    9,281

    Default Re: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

    Quote Originally Posted by JR* View Post
    Yes, a strong case for Rommel, in spite of the "legend". Rommel's conduct in the first phase of the Battle of France was, when you look at it, extraordinarily reckless. Some of his professional colleagues thought he was mad. Perhaps not mad - but his command of the 7th Panzer was in many ways better suited to a company, rather than a divisional commander.
    In fairness to Rommel, he was a gambler who played for high stakes and, with more luck or different circumstances, might have won.

    Rommel in France in 1940 and in North Africa might be compared with the British commander Richard O'Connor who had fortune on his side in some daring and magnificently successful offensives against the many more and better equipped Italians. O'Connor's actions could easily have ended in failure, notably his daring flying column of armour to cut off the Italians at Beda Fomm which was critical in forcing the Italians to surrender, and ultimately in Rommel being sent to North Africa to try to correct the mess the Italians had created.

    On one interpretation, Germany made the classic mistake of reinforcing (Italian) failure by sending Rommel to North Africa where the German military and logistical commitment to that theatre was disproportionately large to the fairly inconsequential strategic benefit to Germany in ejecting the British Commonwealth from North Africa. And more so as Germany's major strategic aims were to be gained by land assaults north and east of the Mediterranean, none of which would have been significantly improved by holding North Africa or controlling the Mediterranean. It could be said that Rommel was handed a bit of a poisoned chalice in being sent to a strategically less than critical theatre. If one accepts that, it could also be said that Germany didn't send its best and brightest commander to such a theatre.

    Much the same could be said of sending Rommel to command the Western Defence when Germany was flat out fighting in the east.

    These interpretations are obviously selectively narrow and simplistic against a much more complicated background, but I put them forward to suggest that it can be argued that Rommel clearly wasn't Germany's greatest commander, and his contemporaries above him took that view, because he was never put in command in its most critical theatres.

    Like MacArthur, he is a very much better commander in the minds of people whose knowledge of him is derived from popular mythology and propaganda than accurate history.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    249

    Default Re: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Perhaps, but by which country?

    Leaving aside the technical status of the Philippines at the time as effectively an American possession on the way to independence around 1946, was MacArthur a greater disgrace to the Philippines, which employed him at great cost to defend it (and from which he departed with a lot of loot) or to the US, to which he reverted as a commander shortly before the war?

    I'd argue that he failed the Philippines the most by failing to live up to his assurances that he had prepared it well to defend itself in the years leading up to the war, and failed the US not much less by his equally confident but baseless assurances to the same effect in the immediate pre-war period. That makes him perhaps the only Allied, or any, commander of a nation to fail completely both nations he served and assured he could defend successfully in the lead up to WWII, and to lose one of them to the enemy, solely by his own spectacular hubris and incompetence.

    Conversely, once he had overcome his failure and the panic that his undeserved career was over, and engaged in his usual machinations to conceal his incompetence in the early phases of the SWPA 1942-43, he grew into the role of a theatre commander and did reasonably well as he gained masssive logistical and other support and notably directly and indirectly from the USN throughout his campaigns and especially from the Australian land forces which with his boundless and unreasoning contempt fought most of his land war in 1942-43. His greatest achievement was, however, creating and expanding a massively successful personal propaganda machine run by a sorry bunch of senior "yes men" who persuaded the public and many in US and Australian government that MacArthur was the greatest military genius in the history of the world and the sole repository of Western knowledge about Japan and its Emperor, presumably gained from close association with the unrelated people, cultures and government of the Philippines.

    MacArthur was in historical terms undoubtedly "a great man" of his time but, viewed against his many "great man" contemporaries, he was as a commander and especially a civilian political aspirant to the US Presidency eventually gained by Eisenhower, whom he described as "the best clerk I ever had", just an "also ran". This is amply demonstrated by his failed and ham-fisted 1944 tilt at the Presidency, which is outstanding for the obsequiousness of his attempts to curry favour with people he thought might help him win office.
    Very well said. He did do a great job though of clearing Washington D.C. of all those unarmed WWI veterans during their "Bonus March". What a pompos A$# he was.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	McArthur.jpg 
Views:	40 
Size:	12.4 KB 
ID:	7720  

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

    Quote Originally Posted by garm1and View Post
    This person could be a politician or general, or anyone with any significance for that matter. I'm going to cast my vote for Charles de Gaulle. I will give him credit for probably being the one most responsible for saving France by going to Britain in 1940 and rallying the French people, and by keeping French interests prominent with the Allied High Command at the strategy table. But he was not a likable personality. He was stubborn and inflexible, and he refused to place himself in a second tier position when he was fortunate to even be at the same table with FDR, Churchill, and the other great generals of the time. What is your opinion? Was it Rommel, Bradley, MacArthur, Monty, or someone else?

    Attachment 7717
    Interesting question. Mac would certainly be right up there but I would go with Halsey.

    Now you need to ask which Halsey? The inspiring leader of October 42 who provided inspiring leadership in the Solomons or the bungling leader of 1945 in command of the 3rd Fleet.

    When He took over 3rd Fleet and Nimitz had him rotating with Spruance in 1944 he hadn't commanded in a major fleet action in almost 2 years. His tenure in 44-45 was characterized by bungling, very bad staff work, uninformed about carrier operations -that changed, as we all know, drastically between 42 and 44, and once again as we all know he had a knack for running into Typhoons.

    I would have sent him home to sit maybe on the General Board and given command of the 3rd Fleet to either Pete Mitscher or John Tower.

    Honorable mention to Mark Clark. After the disaster on the Rapido in Feb of 44, and his failure to give proper orders to cut the German 10th Army off in the Alban Hills after the breakout, I would have relieved him of his command.
    Last edited by Gsetzer; 07-23-2016 at 04:52 PM.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    9,281

    Default Re: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gsetzer View Post
    Interesting question. Mac would certainly be right up there but I would go with Halsey.

    Now you need to ask which Halsey? The inspiring leader of October 42 who provided inspiring leadership in the Solomons or the bungling leader of 1945 in command of the 3rd Fleet.

    When He took over 3rd Fleet and Nimitz had him rotating with Spruance in 1944 he hadn't commanded in a major fleet action in almost 2 years. His tenure in 44-45 was characterized by bungling, very bad staff work, uninformed about carrier operations -that changed, as we all know, drastically between 42 and 44, and once again as we all know he had a knack for running into Typhoons.

    I would have sent him home to sit maybe on the General Board and given command of the 3rd Fleet to either Pete Mitscher or John Tower.

    Honorable mention to Mark Clark. After the disaster on the Rapido in Feb of 44, and his failure to give proper orders to cut the German 10th Army off in the Alban Hills after the breakout, I would have relieved him of his command.
    Welcome to the board, Gsetzer.

    Thanks for those well considered and informed comments.

    We look forward to more of your contributions.

    Rising Sun*
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

    thank you Rising Sun. I just found this forum and already love it. The people who post here are obviously extremely well informed. It's refreshing to interact with other people this well informed.

    Gsetzer

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Buffalo, New York
    Posts
    7,406

    Default Re: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

    My pick for overrated dunderhead is of course Generalissimo MacArthur, for reasons already stated. But I would add that his stature during and after WWII enabled him to stay on far too long and after he was obviously overage, and a relic of America's interwar past. In short, his disastrous decisions in The Korean War (overall, despite some successes such as Inchon) and what I regard as an overall display of poor leadership make him a massive goat that is still a supplicated deity by some.

    MacArthur's imperial overreach and atomic bombast combined with incompetence at maintaining conventional forces in his "soft occupation army" in Japan resulted in a dangerous setback in Korea and showed weakness to our Cold War adversaries. Mac wasn't solely responsible for this as I think the U.S. Army suffered from poor leadership amid budget cuts -or rather budget redirections towards a nuclear deterrent that turned out to be more expensive than anticipated - ultimately resulted in an inferiority complex against the "Godless communist hordes" of Chinese (and by extension Soviet) infantry when in fact U.S. infantry often had vastly more firepower and air support available to them. Mac bungled American advantages by failing to prepare his forces for basic conventional infantry warfare. The proof is in the puddin' as General Matthew Ridgway, often criticized as having no great intellect himself, was able to transform the Army in a few weeks into a vastly more professional and tough fighting force whose battlefield performance was magnified tenfold. I think no other leader displays such overall ineptitude combined with idolatry...

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Yogyakarta
    Posts
    589

    Default Re: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

    I might say, Zhukov
    Everyone can just send masses of armies to death, until the enemy runs out of ammo.
    "My rule is: If you meet the weakest vessel, attack. If it is a vessel equal to yours, attack. And if it is stronger than yours, also attack."

    — Stepan O. Makarov, Russian Admiral

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    9,281

    Default Re: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

    Quote Originally Posted by gumalangi View Post
    I might say, Zhukov
    Everyone can just send masses of armies to death, until the enemy runs out of ammo.
    Zhukov was just following standard Stalin inspired Soviet doctrine of the time in applying massive force without much regard to casualties.

    I don't know enough about all commanders in all armies in WWII, but I suspect he was unique in being victorious before, during and after the war in Europe, being the commander at Nomonhan / Khalkhin Gol battles for about five months before WWII began; in Europe; and again against the Japanese in Manchuria in August 1945.

    Unlike, say, MacArthur who is much better known in the West, he commanded much larger forces for much longer with much greater success.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Buffalo, New York
    Posts
    7,406

    Default Re: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    Zhukov was just following standard Stalin inspired Soviet doctrine of the time in applying massive force without much regard to casualties.

    I don't know enough about all commanders in all armies in WWII, but I suspect he was unique in being victorious before, during and after the war in Europe, being the commander at Nomonhan / Khalkhin Gol battles for about five months before WWII began; in Europe; and again against the Japanese in Manchuria in August 1945.

    Unlike, say, MacArthur who is much better known in the West, he commanded much larger forces for much longer with much greater success.
    He was to an extent, he was also following the decidedly Un-Stalinist doctrine of Deep Battle as well...

    I don't think Zhukov is an overrated personality, he was an able general that had to use his advantages in numbers and resources to overcome a technically superior adversary. But by the end of WWII, the Red Army was a steamroller (if logistically imperfect) capable of massive envelopment that the Germans never could imagine with Schwerpunkt or was was thought of as "Blitzkrieg"...

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    604

    Default Re: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

    William Shirer knew him when he was boadcasting out of Berlin. At first he avoided him but eventually inevitably spent some time with I'm during air raids. Shirer said that a he had a fair sense of humor and that his wife was also an ardent Nazi. Shirer said that the scars on his face were gained during street brawls in his pre-war years.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    604

    Default Re: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

    Mac attended the Texas Military Institute (still here) when he was a young man while his father, Arthur, was stationed at Ft Sam Houston in San Antonio. His mother had a powerful influence over him until she died. When he went to West Point, she moved there to keep an eye on him. He was apparently justly honored for his fearlessness during the FirstWorld War, earning a Congressional Medal of Honor as a rule, thus achieving the same rarified honor that his father did. Mac always possessed a high opinion of himself, had a certain charisma, but was seemingly always a distant sort of character. I am unaware of any close friendships that he had during his life, but he did surround himself with worshipful sycophants. He had the impulses of an authoritarian which probably helped him in Japan postwar and in Manila pre-war. He didn't so much as speak as orate and he expected those nearest to him to pay rapt attention. Interestingly, during the Korean War he spent not a single night on the peninsula, flying home to Tokyo every night. His son, Arthur is not cut from the same cloth and lives quietly in New York City. He sits on he board of an organization related to his father's exploits but I am given to understand that his main interests were in the theatre. My across the street neighbor where I live was the director of all military hospitals in Japan under Macarthur during the occupation and had frequent contact with the family.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    TULSA, OK
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Who was the most overrated personality of WW2?

    Bernard Law Montgomery, if we had given his supplies to Patton I think the war could have been won sooner!

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •