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Thread: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    To the extent that I can remember some brief forensic aspects in lectures and reading 40 or so years ago, a shotgun
    Clarification.

    I should have said 12 gauge shotgun, although if fired into you at close range a 20 gauge and even a .410 will still piss you off mightily.
    Last edited by Rising Sun*; 05-09-2016 at 09:15 AM.
    ..
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  2. #17
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by imi View Post
    In most cases but sometimes there are exceptions in handguns when the bullet is not worth any vein or an area of the brain which cause death, only cripple to life
    And you can be exceedingly lucky.

    I recall back in the ?1970s? reading of a medical specialist attending a medical conference somewhere in America who woke up after being mugged in the street. He walked back to his hotel but found his headache unbearable.

    After being X-rayed in hospital he was found to have several .22 slugs in his skull, all of which had missed critical areas.

    Maybe they were .22 shorts, or sub-sonics, or fired from a weapon with imperfect sealing, but I'd expect that he wouldn't have survived several long rifle hollow points fired from a properly sealed weapon,
    ..
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  3. #18
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by imi View Post
    The 44 magnum is a powerful caliber until 2003, but nothing beats today a 500 Magnum (otherwise a close range shotgun shot is also effective to the head)
    There are many newer. and more powerful cartridges in the .40 to .50 caliber range that are making the headlines these days. After the various iterations of the .44 Mag. revolver appeared, and there were many of them both in single, and double action, newer ideas came forward to take their rightful places, and some actually did. The .44 Automag was a very good idea, and the design well conceived. although it was let down by the lack of metallurgical technology take advantage of being made of Stainless Steel. This failing caused most of the pistols to suffer breakage of the more stressed parts, and led to it's dropping off the market in just a few years. It was chambered in two calibers, the .357 Automag, and the dread .44 Automag. The .44 AMP was more powerful than the old .44 Mag, and did account for many medium, and large game kills. (as long as nothing broke ) So passed the AutoMag pistol. Following this, came the Wildey, it was gas operated, and feaured a changeable barrel design that allowed for barrel length to be suited for use, from 5in. to 18 in. It was also offered in several calibers, the Dirty Harry worthy ones being. 44 Auto Mag
    .44 Wildey Magnum
    .45 Winchester Magnum
    .45 Wildey Magnum
    .475 Wildey Magnum
    Although they seemed to work well enough, they were not entirely successful, probably due to price point.
    Some time later, the Desert Eagle came along. Made by Magnum Research, a division of Israeli military industries, and chambered for a variety of calibers, the most memorable of which are the .44 magnum, and the .50 A.E. (Action Express) This pistol was an immediate hit, and remains so to this day. Everyone wants one, but few want to pay the $1,500 price tag. After these very cool firearms, we get into serious territory with the .458 Socom cartridge, and the .50 Beowolf.
    The S&W .500 Mag is a thundering monster, as is its slightly milder brother the .460 Mag. I do recommend two hand shooting with either of these, as your wrists will get well stretched by either of them . I fired the .460 Mag once, and once was enough for me. (as it would be for an errant Bear, or Feral Boar. )

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post


    Note: All saints have their weak spots, and Saint Clint has some spectacular ones, notably the idiotic sequence towards the end of The Gauntlet where cops on either side of the bus shoot at it with gay abandon (I'm not suggesting the cops are gay, although some of them in some of Saint Clint's movies do look like they'd be happier in the Village People) and one of the all time great war (and it was a long way short of war) movie turkeys Heartbreak Ridge.
    Agreed ! that was one of his less lustrous films, maybe that was because he didn't use his usual ensemble group we see in most of his films from the best, Josey Wales, High plains Drifter, to the goofy ones, the "Any which way" series, and Bronco Billy come to mind.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by tankgeezer View Post
    There are many newer. and more powerful cartridges in the .40 to .50 caliber range that are making the headlines these days. After the various iterations of the .44 Mag. revolver appeared, and there were many of them both in single, and double action, newer ideas came forward to take their rightful places, and some actually did. The .44 Automag was a very good idea, and the design well conceived. although it was let down by the lack of metallurgical technology take advantage of being made of Stainless Steel. This failing caused most of the pistols to suffer breakage of the more stressed parts, and led to it's dropping off the market in just a few years. It was chambered in two calibers, the .357 Automag, and the dread .44 Automag. The .44 AMP was more powerful than the old .44 Mag, and did account for many medium, and large game kills. (as long as nothing broke ) So passed the AutoMag pistol. Following this, came the Wildey, it was gas operated, and feaured a changeable barrel design that allowed for barrel length to be suited for use, from 5in. to 18 in. It was also offered in several calibers, the Dirty Harry worthy ones being. 44 Auto Mag
    .44 Wildey Magnum
    .45 Winchester Magnum
    .45 Wildey Magnum
    .475 Wildey Magnum
    Although they seemed to work well enough, they were not entirely successful, probably due to price point.
    Some time later, the Desert Eagle came along. Made by Magnum Research, a division of Israeli military industries, and chambered for a variety of calibers, the most memorable of which are the .44 magnum, and the .50 A.E. (Action Express) This pistol was an immediate hit, and remains so to this day. Everyone wants one, but few want to pay the $1,500 price tag. After these very cool firearms, we get into serious territory with the .458 Socom cartridge, and the .50 Beowolf.
    The S&W .500 Mag is a thundering monster, as is its slightly milder brother the .460 Mag. I do recommend two hand shooting with either of these, as your wrists will get well stretched by either of them . I fired the .460 Mag once, and once was enough for me. (as it would be for an errant Bear, or Feral Boar. )
    I recall many years ago on another forum being in a minority objecting to a photo which was then doing the rounds of the internet of a kid who supposedly had downed a large animal (?boar?) with some large calibre handgun not conventionally used for game hunting. I think the kid's father had posted it, proudly.

    My view was, and is, that it's unfair to the animal to try to make yourself a pointless hero by downing the animal with too little gun. For every kill, you're probably going to injure several or even many more animals and leave them running away in the bush to die or recover painfully.

    It's a lesson I learnt in my teens when I thought I was clever by bringing down a big kangaroo with an intentional shot in the spine with a .22 because I knew I was unlikely to kill it with a head shot and certainly not with a body shot. I was correct about the head shot. I felt like a real bastard after the second or third head shot on the paralysed animal still failed to kill it instantly.

    Apart from amusing oneself by firing a stupidly overpowered pistol, I don't see much practical use for these extreme calibres in the hands of ordinary people.

    Then again, in the right hands they may have value.

    Back in the late 1970s when I was a lawyer in a country town I had a bit to do with an old style police sergeant who loved nothing better than getting up into the high country with his various weapons and hand loads.

    There came a time when a local criminal (whose younger brother was a client of mine and who we both discovered accidentally had burgled my flat before he became my client, and who failed to return the stolen property as promised after I kept the little turd out of a well deserved stint in gaol) went on an armed rampage and was engaged in a running gunfight at various locations with increasing numbers of police, whom he taunted with assurances that he wouldn't be taken alive.

    Enter the aforementioned police sergeant, his large gun, and his extreme hand loads. Said police sergeant waited for the criminal to pop up from his cover in a paddock and fire a few more shots at the police, then unloaded a round at the criminal. Shortly afterwards, the criminal yelled out that he was surrendering; threw out his weapon; and put his hands up above his cover.

    When asked later why he had surrendered at that point after spending most of the day firing at police, he referred to the sergeant's shot and said "When that shot went into the ground beside me, the ground f**king shook.".
    Last edited by Rising Sun*; 05-09-2016 at 09:48 AM.
    ..
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    Montesquieu

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by tankgeezer View Post
    Agreed ! that was one of his less lustrous films, maybe that was because he didn't use his usual ensemble group we see in most of his films from the best, Josey Wales, High plains Drifter, to the goofy ones, the "Any which way" series, and Bronco Billy come to mind.
    Not to mention the absurd one where he steals a Russian fighter.

    Be all that as it may, it may come as no surprise to you to learn that as I type this at my beach shack in splendid isolation (i.e. no family or anyone else with me) with an ample supply of beer, bacon, eggs, cheese, bread and pepper and hot sauces, I have on my shelves an oft watched DVD of Josey Wales and sundry others such as Joe Kidd, High Plains Drifter, and Pale Rider, along with Coogan's Bluff, Play Misty for Me, etc.

    It is testament to the poverty of culture of recent generations that not only do they not value the eternal verities of such great lines as Josey Wales telling Ten Bears that his word of death is true, and so his word of life is true, and the Shakespearean response of Ten Bears who understands Josey's words of iron. Even worse, these young bastards nowadays have never heard of Josey Wales.

    I fail to see why we pay taxes for an education system which allows children to complete high school without knowing of Josey Wales. I mean, who do they think fought for the freedoms they now enjoy?
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by tankgeezer View Post
    Some time later, the Desert Eagle came along. Made by Magnum Research, a division of Israeli military industries, and chambered for a variety of calibers, the most memorable of which are the .44 magnum, and the .50 A.E. (Action Express) This pistol was an immediate hit, and remains so to this day. Everyone wants one, but few want to pay the $1,500 price tag.
    1500$ for a Desert Eagle? I'd give him not one euro
    The israeli weapon factorys made one of the world poor quality idiot-designed weapons
    Who need a Desert Eagle when its too big to wear and the handling is also probably difficult from the size of the gun, and not to mention about the Uzi you simply can not grasp
    The Israeli Army is using today american weapons probably because their own weapons are unusable
    "The consciousness that I am alive, makes me wild dreams every day"
    (Helmut Wolff lieutenant colonel, one who survived the breakout of Budapest)

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    The movies of Clint Eastwood should be a course required at all Universities, as well as several from the John Wayne Westerns, and the Quiet Man. I noticed that Fire Fox was very similar in plot line to Blue Thunder (Roy Scheider, Malcome McDowell) a different malevolent adversary, but otherwise nearly the same movie only using a Super Helicopter instead of a Super Fighter.
    As far as the millenial generation, and important historic knowledge concerning the source of their Freedoms, sadly it comes to this.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #24
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    good attachment tankgeezer!
    Two different world: one foot in the grave already much smarter people than those who are struggling with mental sensitivity problems in tedium
    "The consciousness that I am alive, makes me wild dreams every day"
    (Helmut Wolff lieutenant colonel, one who survived the breakout of Budapest)

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    To the extent that I can remember some brief forensic aspects in lectures and reading 40 or so years ago, a shotgun with the muzzle against the head will do more damage than just about any other small arm, not least because the large bore, large wad and shot are forced into the skull with an explosion of following explosive gas which is massive compared with rifled small arms, including side arms. That holds true for very short ranges of, perhaps, a few metres. The shotgun destruction is greater than a rifled small arm because the shot tends to expend its kinetic energy in a larger area of the human body than do many much smaller but much faster solid projectiles from rifled weapons, although rifled projectiles concentrate a shockwave in the organs which is also very destructive well beyond the path of penetration.

    For example, at any range a fully jacketed rifled projectile hits the body at a higher velocity (feet or metres per second) than a shotgun shot round with its energy concentrated in a much smaller head than shotgun shot and, even as the rifled projectile deforms or tumbles or fragments as it hits tissue and bone, is more likely to continue through a given thickness of tissue and bone than shotgun shot. The rifled projectile will penetrate much further and on a narrower path than shot, but with greater shockwave damage to surrounding organs versus the wider penetration path of shot.

    In most cases it doesn't matter what you're hit with much above a .22 if it's a standard military shot to the centre of the torso, or a full head shot, because there's enough critical organs in there that between penetration, shockwave, shock and infection that you're probably going to die sooner or later.
    An American actor accidentally killed himself in the 1980's by taking a blank filled .44 Magnum and placing it too his head suicide style, after a gun fight scene ceased filming, and said, "now this one is for me!". The resulting blank cartridge detonating smashed in a section of his skull drving it into his brain instantly killing him... IIRC

    The story here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum#Death
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 05-09-2016 at 04:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post


    ...and one of the all time great war (and it was a long way short of war) movie turkeys Heartbreak Ridge.
    That's a great bored on Saturday afternoon beer and popcorn movie...

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by imi View Post
    1500$ for a Desert Eagle? I'd give him not one euro
    The israeli weapon factorys made one of the world poor quality idiot-designed weapons
    Who need a Desert Eagle when its too big to wear and the handling is also probably difficult from the size of the gun, and not to mention about the Uzi you simply can not grasp
    The Israeli Army is using today american weapons probably because their own weapons are unusable
    Well, from what I've been told by owners of them was the weight was inconvenient, but functionality was good. Very dependable, and performed well. It certainly isn't the first choice for concealed carry, but it does well for those who hunt with a pistol . The Dirty Harry revolver the S&W Model 29 is an old warhorse of a pistol, having been on the market for near to 60 yrs. It was not initially a brisk seller, it was heavy, and the recoil was more than many people wanted to deal with. (with the exception of the aforementioned pistol hunters) It was largely ignored by the shooting public. Then dirty Harry hit the screens. All of a sudden, everyone wanted the mod.29, the most powerful handgun in the World etc. People went on lengthy waiting lists, and many of those who bought them, never fired them, just kept them in the velvet lined wood case they came in. I had an older model in 5" special order and it was not difficult for me to handle, but it didn't really do anything for me either, so in time, I sold it.
    the truly funny thing is that Harry never used Magnum ammunition in his, he used a "light special" meaning the .44 special cartridge,loaded with a lighter than normal 215 grain lead bullet. Common in the late 1800's to early 1900's but still available today. The only difference is in the case length. The Magnum case is made 1/10 inch longer to prevent it from being mistakenly loaded into a .44 special firearm. This same safety feature is used in the .38 special/.357 magnum.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    That's a great bored on Saturday afternoon beer and popcorn movie...
    It sure is, love to hate that uptight Major.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    I have joined this discussion too late, it seems. I apologize for that, as I have not had access to the internet where I have resided for the past year or so, near Morskie Oko.
    But, as of late last week, I watched a forensic documentary about Hitler and Eva Braun's remains near the Reich Chancellery. Interestingly, the forensic examiner complained throughout the documentary about the Russians sloppy examination of the bodies, which he believes were not completely burned, as the gasoline shortage was so severe that the Nazis did not secure enough to completely obliterate the bodies; therefore, that would led one to believe that the bodies were still recognizable, even to a novice forensic examiner. That oversight led to another oversight in which the examiner claimed that the Russians confused Hitler's form of suicide with Eva Braun's due to the location of the blood spots on the sofa and the broken flower vase on the floor, inches from the table. This error made its way to the Allies, and ultimately Life Magazine, who published photos of the bunker and the bloody sofa.

    I have even read accounts that state that no one has ever recovered Hitler's skull; the one found by the Russians is that of a 30 year old, young woman.
    Last edited by Kregs; 05-09-2016 at 11:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    An American actor accidentally killed himself in the 1980's by taking a blank filled .44 Magnum and placing it too his head suicide style, after a gun fight scene ceased filming, and said, "now this one is for me!". The resulting blank cartridge detonating smashed in a section of his skull drving it into his brain instantly killing him... IIRC

    The story here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum#Death
    We were strongly warned not to fire at anyone at short range when using blank firing attachments on 7.62mm SLRs, to avoid injury.

    Thanks to the warnings which had been impressed on us, I passed on the opportunity to find out how much damage could be done when I had the muzzle of my SLR, with blank firing attachment, jammed under the chin of another soldier who was playing Viet Cong in an exercise and who decided to be a hero by trying to escape from the prisoners I was guarding.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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