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Thread: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

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  1. #1
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    Default Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    In the video in 3:56 the forensic doctor shows a handgun
    I've never seen this pistol before
    This is Adolf Hitler or Eva Braun suicide pistol?
    What is the type of this weapon? (looks like a type of the Walther but I'm not sure)

    The pistol
    http://oi66.tinypic.com/dmfhn9.jpg

    The full video (in german language)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6SiBOUQK_I
    "The consciousness that I am alive, makes me wild dreams every day"
    (Helmut Wolff lieutenant colonel, one who survived the breakout of Budapest)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    I believe it was a Walther PPK in the 7.65mm (.32 ACP) caliber...

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I believe it was a Walther PPK in the 7.65mm (.32 ACP) caliber...
    I also knew that Hitler's Walther PPK with a 7.65 caliber and had committed suicide with his Walther and by biting a cyanide capsule while shoot inside the head himself
    Eva Braun was lying untouched gun on the table, she just took a cyanide capsule

    But I was thinking two thoughts
    But in the picture little bit different than other Walther pistols:

    a) the gun trigger is solid (The Walther Company never made any model with solid trigger, only with normal trigger)

    The second question

    Hitler skull
    http://oi63.tinypic.com/ou9ypu.jpg

    Another baffling question of Hitler's skull, the photograph clearly shows two things:

    The strange thing is for me the place of the bullet output or exit location, because it is located next to the Foramen magnum
    Which rather seems as if the ball would have input or exit of the lower section of the back of the skull
    Hitler and shot herself in the skull temple, so it is quite interesting position where the ball would have input or exit on the lower area of the skull
    "The consciousness that I am alive, makes me wild dreams every day"
    (Helmut Wolff lieutenant colonel, one who survived the breakout of Budapest)

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I believe it was a Walther PPK in the 7.65mm (.32 ACP) caliber...
    IIRC, the Vietnam era Australian standard issue military 7.62mm SLR I used equated to a .308 (or .308W, depending on who you talk to) civilian round.

    Assuming that 7.62 = .308 or thereabouts, a Walther PPK or anything else adding a mere .03mm to 7.62mm falls a long way short of .32.

    Presumably this is just another calibre that is based on something other than common sense standardised measurements. Anyone know why?
    ..
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    A quick Wiki check confirms it...

    "PPK" is an abbreviation for Polizeipistole Kriminalmodell (Police Pistol Detective Model), "kriminal" referring to the police detective (criminal) division.[3] Adolf Hitler shot and killed himself with his PPK (a 7.65mm/.32 ACP) in the Führerbunker in Berlin.[5] The Walther PPK pistol is famous as fictional secret agent James Bond's gun in many of the films and novels: Ian Fleming's choice of the Walther PPK directly influenced its popularity and its notoriety.[6][7] Fleming had given Bond a .25 Beretta 418 pistol in early novels, but switched to the PPK in Dr. No on the advice of firearms expert Geoffrey Boothroyd.[7][8][9]

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    I ask gun experts says another forum,and this pistol is a third variation of a Walther Model 8 in 6.35 or 7.65 caliber (but Artur Axmann took Hitler handgun which later disappeared after becoming prisoners of war Axmann)

    Walther Model 8
    http://oi63.tinypic.com/v4szv4.jpg

    More question it arises in the case
    - Whose gun is it if not Hitler or Eva Braun gun? The forensic doctor from took out of the box which contains (in theory) Hitler skull and teeth are the video
    "The consciousness that I am alive, makes me wild dreams every day"
    (Helmut Wolff lieutenant colonel, one who survived the breakout of Budapest)

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Okay the mistery is solved probably!
    - The gun is a third variant Walther Model 8, 6.35 caliber that is sure
    - The gun is owned probably Eva Braun in the bunker

    The only question that remains for me is not clear if Hitler shot himself in the temple, why the exit wound of the bullet at the bottom of the skull, next to the Foramen magnum hole?

    Here is a interesting picture: this is the reenact position of Hitler and Eva Braun dead bodies after their suicide
    http://oi68.tinypic.com/14oc961.jpg
    "The consciousness that I am alive, makes me wild dreams every day"
    (Helmut Wolff lieutenant colonel, one who survived the breakout of Budapest)

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Historically, the imperial system of firearms cartridges frequently causes frustration when figuring out which thing goes to which caliber. The .32 auto pistol cartridge is a perfect example of this confusing situation. In Europe, its called the 7.65 and sometimes has the case length in mm following. In the Imperial system, it is called the .32 auto, .32 a.c.p. or the .32 Browning.
    In this case, the actual bullet diameter (caliber) is .312 to .314 inches. this makes it a .31 caliber, but the imperial system loves to round up, or down the numbers. The mentioned 7.62x51 Nato cartridge is with slight differences, a .308 Winchester, and considered to be a .30 caliber. .45 caliber pistols use .452 diameter bullets, and .45 Rifles use .458. The venerable .38 special is in truth, a .35 cal. (.357 dia) and a .380 is a 9mm with a short case on it. (.355 dia.) Even Dirty Harry's famed .44 Magnum is a somewhat less impressive .429.
    The .32 auto uses the same diameter(though much lighter a bullet) as the .303 British, and the Japanese 7.7 Arisaka. The .32 winchester of long ago uses .321 " bullets, and the 7.92x57 Mauser uses .323" This was also a problem created by marketing, as no one wanted to, (or were allowed to by copyright, or patent )use something that would allow for mistakes in choosing the wrong MFG's product. So poor translation between Imperial, and Metric sizes, advertising ploys, or just lazyness on the part of the nomenclature folks, it's all a very confused mish-mash of numbers.

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by tankgeezer View Post
    Historically, the imperial system of firearms cartridges frequently causes frustration when figuring out which thing goes to which caliber. The .32 auto pistol cartridge is a perfect example of this confusing situation. In Europe, its called the 7.65 and sometimes has the case length in mm following. In the Imperial system, it is called the .32 auto, .32 a.c.p. or the .32 Browning.
    In this case, the actual bullet diameter (caliber) is .312 to .314 inches. this makes it a .31 caliber, but the imperial system loves to round up, or down the numbers. The mentioned 7.62x51 Nato cartridge is with slight differences, a .308 Winchester, and considered to be a .30 caliber. .45 caliber pistols use .452 diameter bullets, and .45 Rifles use .458. The venerable .38 special is in truth, a .35 cal. (.357 dia) and a .380 is a 9mm with a short case on it. (.355 dia.) Even Dirty Harry's famed .44 Magnum is a somewhat less impressive .429.
    The .32 auto uses the same diameter(though much lighter a bullet) as the .303 British, and the Japanese 7.7 Arisaka. The .32 winchester of long ago uses .321 " bullets, and the 7.92x57 Mauser uses .323" This was also a problem created by marketing, as no one wanted to, (or were allowed to by copyright, or patent )use something that would allow for mistakes in choosing the wrong MFG's product. So poor translation between Imperial, and Metric sizes, advertising ploys, or just lazyness on the part of the nomenclature folks, it's all a very confused mish-mash of numbers.
    Thanks, TG.

    Down here, we got rid of one and two cent coins years ago, with the law requiring that prices are rounded down or up to the nearest five cents, which seems reasonable.

    The same approach would see the 7.65mm rounded down to .31, which is beyond common sense

    My money is on advertising ploys and the commercial greed which spawn them being responsible for it being rounded up to .32.

    I doubt any other industry would get away with such gross misdescriptions, e.g. you pay for 32 litres of petrol but get only 31, or pay for 32,000 metres of steel / timber / etc but get only 31,000.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by tankgeezer View Post
    Even Dirty Harry's famed .44 Magnum is a somewhat less impressive .429.
    With the greatest respect to a, until now, moderator of outstanding knowledge, ability and judiciousness, you are treading on thin ice when you say anything which diminishes Dirty Harry and his .44 Magnum, being the most powerful handgun in the world and would blow your head clean off.

    In the interests of avoiding a further decline in your statements about Saint Clint Eastwood which, I fear, could lead ultimately to disparaging comments about The Outlaw Josey Wales, and while it is not customary for one mod to warn another on the public board, I feel I must caution you to observe proper reverence for Dirty Harry, The Outlaw Josey Wales and Saint Clint's other expressions of all that is fine and good in police and, somewhat confusingly, outlaws.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    With the greatest respect to a, until now, moderator of outstanding knowledge, ability and judiciousness, you are treading on thin ice when you say anything which diminishes Dirty Harry and his .44 Magnum, being the most powerful handgun in the world and would blow your head clean off.
    The 44 magnum is a powerful caliber until 2003, but nothing beats today a 500 Magnum (otherwise a close range shotgun shot is also effective to the head)
    "The consciousness that I am alive, makes me wild dreams every day"
    (Helmut Wolff lieutenant colonel, one who survived the breakout of Budapest)

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by imi View Post
    The 44 magnum is a powerful caliber until 2003, but nothing beats today a 500 Magnum (otherwise a close range shotgun shot is also effective to the head)
    To the extent that I can remember some brief forensic aspects in lectures and reading 40 or so years ago, a shotgun with the muzzle against the head will do more damage than just about any other small arm, not least because the large bore, large wad and shot are forced into the skull with an explosion of following explosive gas which is massive compared with rifled small arms, including side arms. That holds true for very short ranges of, perhaps, a few metres. The shotgun destruction is greater than a rifled small arm because the shot tends to expend its kinetic energy in a larger area of the human body than do many much smaller but much faster solid projectiles from rifled weapons, although rifled projectiles concentrate a shockwave in the organs which is also very destructive well beyond the path of penetration.

    For example, at any range a fully jacketed rifled projectile hits the body at a higher velocity (feet or metres per second) than a shotgun shot round with its energy concentrated in a much smaller head than shotgun shot and, even as the rifled projectile deforms or tumbles or fragments as it hits tissue and bone, is more likely to continue through a given thickness of tissue and bone than shotgun shot. The rifled projectile will penetrate much further and on a narrower path than shot, but with greater shockwave damage to surrounding organs versus the wider penetration path of shot.

    In most cases it doesn't matter what you're hit with much above a .22 if it's a standard military shot to the centre of the torso, or a full head shot, because there's enough critical organs in there that between penetration, shockwave, shock and infection that you're probably going to die sooner or later.
    ..
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    Montesquieu

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    In most cases it doesn't matter what you're hit with much above a .22 if it's a standard military shot to the centre of the torso, or a full head shot, because there's enough critical organs in there that between penetration, shockwave, shock and infection that you're probably going to die sooner or later.
    In most cases but sometimes there are exceptions in handguns when the bullet is not worth any vein or an area of the brain which cause death, only cripple to life
    "The consciousness that I am alive, makes me wild dreams every day"
    (Helmut Wolff lieutenant colonel, one who survived the breakout of Budapest)

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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    To the extent that I can remember some brief forensic aspects in lectures and reading 40 or so years ago, a shotgun
    Clarification.

    I should have said 12 gauge shotgun, although if fired into you at close range a 20 gauge and even a .410 will still piss you off mightily.
    Last edited by Rising Sun*; 05-09-2016 at 10:15 AM.
    ..
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    Default Re: Adolf Hitler suicide pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun* View Post
    To the extent that I can remember some brief forensic aspects in lectures and reading 40 or so years ago, a shotgun with the muzzle against the head will do more damage than just about any other small arm, not least because the large bore, large wad and shot are forced into the skull with an explosion of following explosive gas which is massive compared with rifled small arms, including side arms. That holds true for very short ranges of, perhaps, a few metres. The shotgun destruction is greater than a rifled small arm because the shot tends to expend its kinetic energy in a larger area of the human body than do many much smaller but much faster solid projectiles from rifled weapons, although rifled projectiles concentrate a shockwave in the organs which is also very destructive well beyond the path of penetration.

    For example, at any range a fully jacketed rifled projectile hits the body at a higher velocity (feet or metres per second) than a shotgun shot round with its energy concentrated in a much smaller head than shotgun shot and, even as the rifled projectile deforms or tumbles or fragments as it hits tissue and bone, is more likely to continue through a given thickness of tissue and bone than shotgun shot. The rifled projectile will penetrate much further and on a narrower path than shot, but with greater shockwave damage to surrounding organs versus the wider penetration path of shot.

    In most cases it doesn't matter what you're hit with much above a .22 if it's a standard military shot to the centre of the torso, or a full head shot, because there's enough critical organs in there that between penetration, shockwave, shock and infection that you're probably going to die sooner or later.
    An American actor accidentally killed himself in the 1980's by taking a blank filled .44 Magnum and placing it too his head suicide style, after a gun fight scene ceased filming, and said, "now this one is for me!". The resulting blank cartridge detonating smashed in a section of his skull drving it into his brain instantly killing him... IIRC

    The story here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum#Death
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 05-09-2016 at 05:42 PM.

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