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Thread: ISIS: The End is Nigh?

  1. #31
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    Default Re: ISIS: The End is Nigh?

    Quote Originally Posted by leccy View Post
    The possibility of setting alight to a fuel tank may be remote to non existant with a standard round - but Tracer? I have set alight to rather a lot of grass land with that.
    I'd suggest that the difference between setting grass alight with tracer and, as the article which started this discussion says, causing a flamethrower fuel tank to explode with one round, tracer or otherwise, is that:

    1. Dry grass is already in the required combination with oxygen in the air to meet the first and second basic fire requirements of fuel and oxygen, which will be ignited by the third, being the ignition source of tracer.

    2. Jellied petrol, or whatever the fuel was, in the presumably full or largely full flamethrower tank in the article lacks oxygen inside the tank. The fuel is more likely to quench the tracer than to be ignited by it. (There is a separate issue, well beyond my knowledge, of whether there could be oxygen inside the tank as it might be fed by some inert gas to force the fuel out. Where is flamethrowerguy when we need his expertise?)

    I don’t doubt that tracer could ignite various petroleum based fuels and other items under the right conditions, but the issue in the article is one round hitting the fuel tank which seems to me to be unlikely for the reasons I previously mentioned.

    If it was a burst of tracer which penetrated the tank and caused a leakage with a fuel : air ratio that could be ignited by following rounds, that seems quite possible.

    Even then, I can’t see how it would cause an explosion which could take out a number people in the vicinity rather than just starting a fire up to the point where fuel is leaking from the tank, unless the tank has several large punctures and is bleeding lots of fuel which allows the fire to rage.

    I’m happy to be proved wrong, but when I read the article it set my journalistic bullshit meter towards the heavy end of the bullshit scale.
    Last edited by Rising Sun*; 09-19-2016 at 06:58 AM.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  2. #32
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    Default Re: ISIS: The End is Nigh?

    Quote Originally Posted by tankgeezer View Post
    For the U.S. military, the standard round for any .5" weapons is an API (armor piercing, incendiary,) Also available in Trace. APIT There are also the MK211 Roufoss rounds that have explosive bullets with some additional refinements. Either of these would be likely to cause a fireball if used on pressurized tanks. There are of course several different marks of non A.P. incendiary etc. 50 BMG which would not be likely to set off the flame thrower tanks. I don't have a pic of the API, but I do of a raufoss round.
    No idea of the relevant law, but I'm inclined to suspect that current laws of war prohibit intentionally using API / APIT rounds against a human target (for the sake of the discussion, I'm treating ISIS as human, despite all evidence to the contrary).
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  3. #33
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    Default Re: ISIS: The End is Nigh?

    I seem to remember being told that use of the 50 specifically against troops only was against the conventions, but practically, speaking we were told to "use what you had to." I recall seeing in various tv documentaries, accounts of U.S.snipers in the present theaters using the Mk. 211 Raufoss rounds against individuals who were using barricades, or walls for protection. I can say that on the M-60's of my time, all we had available was the API, and APIT. The .30 cal Coax machine gun had only the usual 4 Ball, one Trace mix, no AP or Incendiary.
    The ammunition I use in my sporting 50 BMG Rifle has a steel core, but is not hardened as is the core of AP bullets . This is I'm guessing just to reduce the amount of Lead used in making them. The very accurate match grade stuff for the 50 BMG is usually a solid Brass, Copper, or in some cases Bronze, lathe turned bullets having features that allow for extreme distance use against individuals, and light vehicles. So to answer the question, (sorry for going the long way around the shed) I don't know if any prohibitions remain pertaining to use of 50 BMG on troops. I just use it on those evil paper targets. (They remind me of Mr. Green )
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    Last edited by tankgeezer; 09-19-2016 at 04:23 PM.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: ISIS: The End is Nigh?

    I'm a big fan of the 50 Rifle, whatever the configuration, the Raufoss munitions are new to me, we never had such things in the olden days. I hope all NATO forces have them. If I were a rich man, I could buy some to try out, but it is costlier than ammo for my Finn 20 mm. If you ever get a chance to fire a 50BMG rifle, don't hesitate to try it, they are great fun. Get some walking wounded medication for any lingering shoulder discomfort, (Single Malt is quite effective) ..

  5. #35
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    Default Re: ISIS: The End is Nigh?

    Quote Originally Posted by tankgeezer View Post
    I seem to remember being told that use of the 50 specifically against troops only was against the conventions, but practically, speaking we were told to "use what you had to."...

    We were told to make sure we aimed a .50 round at their kevlar helmets, rifles, and web gear so we would destroy their equipment but not kill anyone intentionally...

  6. #36
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    Default Re: ISIS: The End is Nigh?

    When we trained on the use of the M-2 50 cal, we fired at lines of silhouette targets, same for the Tank mounted M-85 .50 cal. Part of the crew qualification tests were to have the Commander use his 50 against ground troops (a simulation of the coax machine gun failing, and the TC taking over with the 50.). Well, targets of them anyway. Though mostly it was used against Trucks and Artillery pieces. It was useful against regular buildings but not so much on Bunkers unless they were the Log construction types . We carried plenty of Main Gun High Explosive Plastic ammo for harder targets.

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