Dunkirk

[historian_101airborne]

Dunkirk was the basic point during the early stages of World War 2 that engulfed rage in the British Common Wealth. The great Winston Churchill himself made the choice to skip and leave the men at villages and they were either killed or captured in them. At Dunkirk though the choice of Winston was that the soldiers were to be evacuated these men were French and British soldiers that had gone to Dunkirk but not all made it some where ambushed and died or were taken prisoner British soldiers beat up the French soldiers trying to get to he beaches at Dunkirk (not all British very few) for those who made it they saw 5,000 plus soldiers on beaches lined up and waiting patiently to be taken off and put into the hundreds of British Naval and civilian vessels who were taking them off shore. The beaches were bombed and pounded by German artillery. Ju 87 "Stuka" bombers bombed the beaches and German artillery as I said beat the beaches up. Luckily the sand in the beach absorbed most of the shell blast and shrapnel which greatly helps with the injuries and death of the escaping soldiers. The evacuation took 1-3 days and not everyone made it out some were killed by explosions others (injured) were abandoned. It was a shining victory for Germany and boosted moral for them. Yet for Britian it was disaster. This caused outrage in the some of the British people believing it was time to fully go on the attack against Germany and basically what I think was a blessing for Britian because the knew that you can pound us and pound us but we will get back up and fight back (great example is Battle of Britain) thanks for reading please comment

[leccy]

The evacuation at Dunkirk took place over 8 days and was just one (although the largest and most famous) part of the operation to evacuate the BEF. Approximately 350,000 of the 500,000 troops evacuated went through Dunkirk.

Most were evacuated from the moles by larger ships (often the destroyers), next the lorry piers built by the British then by small craft lifting directly off the beaches.

The RN originally thought around 30 to 40,000 men would be able to be evacuated. But through the British grit and maritime spirit many craft that were not suitable for any sort of open water still crossed the Channel to act as ferrys from the beaches and piers to the larger ships offshore which carried the troops back to the UK.

The determination of the French (mainly) and British rearguards defending the Channel ports prevented the German ground troops from actually being able to penetrate into the towns and stop the evacuation.

The Channel evacuation was hardly a failure for Britain as it meant the bulk of the trained army was brought back to train new troops, continue fighting (easier to replace equipment) and deter immediate invasion.

Winston Churchill took over on the 10th May as Prime Minister (the same day the Germans launched their attack on France and the Low Countries), he had relatively little impact of the way the ground fighting was carried out, the Allied command was fractured and did not really trust each other nation, they rarely worked together to produce a cohesive defense or strategy.

France was the main nominal leadership but their higher command rapidly lost touch with events, Divisions started to act on their own as they lost command and control from higher echelons. The BEF as a whole did a fighting retreat as best they could, not always knowing or trusting if their was units on their flanks, some units were overrun with barely a shot (some Artillery and AT units did not even have live ammunition as events overtook supply, command and control), others fought tenaciously holding back the german forces.

The Germans themselves suffered set backs that concerned them greatly like the British attack at Arras (supported by some French units but not in a proper or really organised way), French defense of Stonne, fighting around the Somme (which pretty much finished the partially deployed and formed up British 1st Armd Div - at the time Britain's only Armoured Div and only recently formed).

With the lack of opportunities for ground fighting against the Germans the British struck back any way they could, naval and commando raids on German occupied coastlines, aerial bombing which increased in intensity and effectiveness as the war progressed.

[historian_101airborne]

I apologize for my incorrect historical facts it was late night and it was too late for me to edit it

[Frankly Dude Really]

Uhm, Hullo ???? Wasn't the first poster a chinese scamm troll ?
* bad english and
* no points or postulations made or questions asked
* faulty assessments or downward historical lies

please remove or close...

[tankgeezer]

Uhm, Hullo ???? Wasn't the first poster a chinese scamm troll ?
* bad english and
* no points or postulations made or questions asked
* faulty assessments or downward historical lies

please remove or close...

Your request to remove, or close the thread is denied. PM has been sent to you.

[JR*]

Hard not to accept that the evacuation of large elements of the BEF from France in 1940 was a success for the British and, in the longer term, something of a disaster for the Germans. One downside from a British viewpoint was that, in order to contribute to the longest possible delay on the German advance, it was necessary for them to commit a large number of units from the prewar "permanent" British Army - small, but professional and well-trained - to the defense of perimeters. Many of these units fought to the last bullet; sometimes to the last man, given the unpredictable reactions of some German units to the taking of prisoners from units that had resisted them so forcefully. However, it was a situation of "needs must ...".

I do believe it is harsh to criticize the French to the extent sometimes done. French forces in the north had not performed very well during the open phase of the battle. This, however, was partly a result of very poor leadership at the highest level, poor planning and poor communications. As perimiters contracted towards the coast, these drawbacks shrank somewhat in importance. As a result, many of the French units in the way of the German thrust proved capable of stiffening their resistance very considerably. The units concerned included élite French units all the way down to convict formations. Without them, it is very doubtful whether the British (British/French) evacuation could have proved anything like so successful. Best regards, JR.

[Rising Sun*]

I do believe it is harsh to criticize the French to the extent sometimes done. French forces in the north had not performed very well during the open phase of the battle. This, however, was partly a result of very poor leadership at the highest level, poor planning and poor communications.

Correct, so far as sweeping unfair condemnation of French forces is concerned.

As indeed it is unfair to criticise, say, French units and, separately, Italian units which fought British Commonwealth forces in the Middle East Their best units fought as hard and as well as any others anywhere else, excluding Japanese suicidal practices.

The French high command up to Dunkirk bordered on laughable for its self-imposed geographical and communications isolation from the battlefield and, as you say, that was a major contributor to France's poor performance.

The failure of leadership did not, however, stop there as the lower levels of the French army failed to instil discipline and martial spirit in many of the conscripts and perhaps some regular soldiers who, when confronted with German attacks, demonstrated little or no willingness to fight, even on their home soil.

A remotely similar failure in leadership, training and discipline in the British army would have seen it collapse long before Dunkirk and would have made the Dunkirk evacuation impossible.

This does not reflect any inherent superiority or inferiority in either nation's troops, but it certainly reflects a massive failure in the efficiency of the officer corps of the French army from the top down in training and leading their troops.

[Frankly Dude Really]

Your request to remove, or close the thread is denied. PM has been sent to you.

to reverse quote of poster; ' thanks for commenting please read '

[tankgeezer]

to reverse quote of poster; ' thanks for commenting please read '

You're quite funny FDR, but to tell the truth, only my words issue from my mouth, no others are welcome.