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Thread: Time-Bomb of Athens ?

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Time-Bomb of Athens ?

    I reserve comments on the final outcome of the "Time-Bomb" case. I can see points on both sides. However, one wonders whether it was really necessary to grind the Greeks into the ground in the way it was done. An image of Orwell's "1984" comes to mind. Will certainly have more to say on the consequences for the EU and the Eurozone anon ... JR.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Time-Bomb of Athens ?

    Sigh ... the Goddess Hera (Christine Lagarde) apparently thundered from Olympus/Washington before the other Troikists had concluded their "bailout" agreement with the Tsipriots, stating that the Greeks needed much greater debt relief than the EU was willing to contemplate. This, to say the least, creates doubt as to whether the IMF is willing to participate in the "bailout" on the terms currently on offer. Something of a problem, since the Germans insist that, legally, they can only participate if the IMF is also is there also. Meanwhile, poor Tsipras is trying to shore up a defection-plagued party, and to persuade the Greek parliament that it should vote for a bailout proposal that is (a) more severe than the one previously on offer, which the Greeks voted against in a referendum and (b) is regarded by the IMF as inadequate to the needs of the situation. This situation would be laugh-a-minute farce, were it not so serious. The Greek Parliament is supposed to vote on this mess tonight. Ho-hum. Yours from my local mental hospital, JR.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Time-Bomb of Athens ?

    Tsipras and his party wanted and expected to get a debt write off without having to accept any more austerity (or even to really enforce what was already agreed which may have helped their position).

    Problem for them though is they want to borrow more money from those who had already loaned them money and who they wanted to write off existing debts - Seems the fundamental issue of trying to pass your debt on to others is not realised fully by them.

    Several other nations are also looking at the outcome - after all if Greece gets more of its debt written off - they think should as well. This will knock on to more nations as the debt is shifted to those who have lent money.

    One of the last things the Labour Government did was agree to act as a guarantor for 6 billion on Greek loans when they were initially called for - Britain would not actually give the money to Greece - that was to come from the Eurozone nations - Gordon Brown's claim it was just a figure of support and we would never have to actually pay any money looks a little suspect now.

    Looking at a nice patch of wild forest land and considering building a house out of old pallets and becoming a Hermit away from it all.
    IN the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
    Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise
    An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
    With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes
    At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
    They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Time-Bomb of Athens ?

    A nice Cottage in Rannoch Moor would keep the beggars away,, (worked on the Romans,,)

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Time-Bomb of Athens ?

    How the bail out package works.


    ​It is a slow day in a little Greek village.

    The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted.

    Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

    On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.

    The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.

    The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.

    The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.

    The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna.

    The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.

    The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.

    The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything.

    At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.

    No one produced anything.

    No one earned anything.

    However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.

    And the German tourist is glad that his €100 has held its value while he was looking at the hotel room in Greece's shaky economy.
    ..
    A rational army would run away.
    Montesquieu

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Time-Bomb of Athens ?

    I seem to remember an economist friend of mine once explaining to me the concept of "High-Powered Money" ... JR.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Time-Bomb of Athens ?

    Well, all's (almost) quiet on the Tsipras Front at the moment. Both the Greek government (what's left of it) and the Troikists are working out the details for implementing the extremely onerous terms - more onerous than those voted against by the Greek populous in the recent referendum. This will allow the remainder of Greece's second bailout fund to be released, and allow the Greeks to negotiate a third bailout with the Troikists. At least that's the idea ...

    It remains far from certain that this course represents the road back to prosperity for Greece. A former Irish ambassador to Greece, now retired and living in the country, had an article published in an Irish newspaper this morning, insisting that the possibility of Greece ever, ever repaying its enormous underlying debt is about zero, and default is certain at some stage. I tend to agree with him. Further activity on the Tsipras Line can confidently be expected ...

    It is perhaps about time for consideration of the broader consequences of the present Greek crisis for the European Union, and for the Eurozone, as a whole. These are serious, and several. The most important, it seems to me, is that it has blown away forever the illusion that the EU is a benign shelter of democracy, involving an equally benign process of "ever deeper union" capable of incorporating national democratic interests. A small minority of us here have always believed that this impression of the EU agenda is a lie. For me, at least, it is no pleasure to say that the views I have held for so many years on this subject have been absolutely vindicated. Interesting, however, that the scales appear to have fallen from the eyes of many hitherto Europhile commentators, who now, at last, see the truth in the words of more than one economic commentator on the Greek crisis, to the effect that "local" democratic decision-making processes are absolutely antithetical to the EU process of governance. In the words of one top EU administrator in recent days, "Dissent is impossible outside the scope of the Treaties". Quite.

    Where this broader scenario goes is somewhat doubtful. President Hollande of France has, within the last few days, put the matter from the EU "centre" baldly - the Single Currency can only work in the context of a unified EU "government", with full effective control of fiscal as well as monetary policy throughout the EU. Again, quite - the Eurorealist minority have been saying this since before the institution of the Euro. The problem is that this places the cart before the horse. Sacrificing national democratic control of budgets should only occur in the context of a much greater programme of cultural and economic integration; the idea of handing fiscal control over to the profoundly undemocratic Eurocracy simply to support a profoundly misconceived, politically inspired monetary union is ridiculous. However, the deliberate crushing and humiliation of Greece by the Eurocracy (organ grinder - A. Merkel, monkey - F. Hollande) makes it quite clear that, as part of the German/French centralization process, that same Eurocracy is willing to exert "correction with extreme prejudice" against any Member State, undertaking or individual person daring to challenge its line. Again, surprise me ... Yours from the GPO, JR.
    Last edited by JR*; 07-21-2015 at 10:22 AM.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Time-Bomb of Athens ?

    I think some of the underlying reasoning behind the strict insistence on harsher rules than previously (and ones that have to be enacted in law - not just promises), was to really get Greece (and other nations in the EU) to start sorting out their government spending compared to national income.

    No perpetual hand outs or loans growing bigger and bigger till you have to get loans that just cover your last bill and no cash left for yourself.

    Any nation that borrows and does not pay back has in effect just passed their bad financial planning onto others, it can only happen for so long before resentment grows

    Greece potentially exiting the Euro was probably seen as a lesser effect than them having a huge debt write off now and able to borrow again easily. That would just give impetus to other nations to follow the 'Greek example', Greece after all is not the only nation in the Euro Zone (or outside who owe money to the EU) who are looking for debt reduction/write off.
    IN the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
    Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise
    An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
    With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes
    At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
    They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

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