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View Poll Results: What was the role of USSR in WW2

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  • No big deal

    2 12.50%
  • The winner of WW2

    7 43.75%
  • Helped US to win the war

    5 31.25%
  • Was the ally of Nazi Germany in the beginning

    2 12.50%
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Thread: The role of the USSR in World War II

  1. #61
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    Default Re: The role of the USSR in World War II

    A few little meandering thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankly Dude Really View Post
    There were also Spanish volunteers fighting along the Nazis. That doesn't mean "Russia " was fighting "Spain". Duh!
    Another example: Brasil joined the allies and was "fighting" Nazi germany......

    Using your expression DUH - the Spanish fall under the anti-communist forces - as do some from France, Scandinavia, Holland, Belgium etc etc - some fought as independent units even full Divisions others as individuals in regular Heer units.

    And Russia was not fighting Italy , the Land and full nation of Italy on all theatres of italian conflicts of the world.
    Italy sent a couple of 1000 italian wannabeheroes to fight in russia, and on paper Italy joined the declaration of war...but that's it.

    Well excuse me but definition of fighting is having two sides engaged in some sort of match up leading often to pain on one side or the other - in the Italians v Soviets it was slightly more than just pain, the Italians had Naval, Air and Land forces engaged against the Soviets - in the Soviet Union - Just because Soviet forces did not invade Italy does not mean they did not fight.

    BTW the ARMIR had over 230,000 Italian Soldiers (half of whom became casualties of one sort or another - 80,000+ MIA/POW with 10,000 repatriated alive - bit different from your couple of thousand), it came about when the CSIR (60,000+) was increased in size in 1942 - The RM also operated midget subs and MAS boats in the black sea

    I could also point out that Polish, French, British and later Romanian and Bulgarian units fought side by side or as part of the Soviet Armies against the Axis - some in larger numbers than others


    Which is exactly my/our point: The CCCP could NOT afford redirecting men/material to Japan front, which is exactly why USA and UK should be credited for it by the Russians (today's russian historians).

    The Soviets had enough forces to keep the Japanese from attempting to attack again - the Japanese nor Chinese allies/puppets could not beat them in 1938 or 1939 on land and had not the resources or man power to attack later - China being joined by the majority of the allies in 1941 diverted everything they had.

    The Soviets had no wish to get involved against Japan - served them no purpose at the time - so why would they bother


    Which I also said: but with this nuance difference: Zjoekov won BECAUSE he had better tanks (t26/BT5 were better than the jap tankettes) if it were to be inf to inf (with Arty and few airplanes) then Zjoekov may have failed in the 38-39.
    At the end of the war in 1945, the japanese there were even less of a match: less men, no planes, no tanks (not even obsolete japanese tanks).

    Zhukov did not arrive in theatre until 1939, the battles in 1938 were not wins or losses really for either side - with Generals on both sides being removed from their posts and invited for tea and biscuits - minus the tea and biscuits

    Zhukov not only had better tanks, but he had more than three times the numbers the Japanese had, he also had a far larger airforce to call on while troop numbers were slightly in favour of the Japanese and Chinese puppet armies favour (attacking across a river limited the Japanese and their allies ability to provide an adequate force as well).


    Yes. As in; in shock realising that the japanese army needed better design, bigger guns etc. on their tanks. Which they did , the planning, sketching, trials, tests...only what failed by that time, 1943-ish, was the lack of industrial materials to fabricate them in large numbers.

    Japan need AT guns more than tanks, more of them and more effective ones, but even then it would not be enough, what it really needed was the ability to produce enough carriers and train enough pilots to fly off them to defeat the allied navies - no matter what tanks Japan had the allies could strangle Japan slowly as they did - in most of the theatres it was infantry with limited tank support for bunker busting that was used - Lack of tanks did not decide the outcome
    IN the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
    Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise
    An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
    With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes
    At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
    They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: The role of the USSR in World War II

    My thoughts on the USSR WW2 alone,

    1) NO defeat of the Japanese Empire via the UK and US.
    2) NO defeat of the axis army in North Africa via the UK and US.
    3) NO Lend lease either from the UK or US.
    4) NO Battle for Britain. The axis aircraft loses were enormous.
    5) NO Domination of the seas, all of them.
    6) NO Destruction of axis factories in a sustained bombing campaign.
    7) NO Defeat of Italy via UK and US.
    8) NO Second front via US and UK, Normandy Invasion.

    I do think the Russia gets too much credit after getting its *** kicked. How far into Russia did German Forces get. Also if you don't take prisoners, or they die very suddenly under your supervision how does that count towards the war tally.

    I'm Sorry in the end Stalin and Hitler were one and the same.
    Last edited by Wittmann; 03-22-2015 at 02:24 AM.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: The role of the USSR in World War II

    Quote Originally Posted by stalin View Post
    the East Front was the main WWII front where the biggest part of Nazi Germany troops was amassed and largest & most decisive battles ever in the history of mankind fought, so it was the USSR that won this war, hands down.

    Actually if Italy would not have needed Germany's help in Greece Germany would have attacked the USSR earlier and the fact that Germany had about 50 divisions in France because they had not defeated Britian. If Britian had fallen and Hitler had started the attack on the USSR weeks earlier like he wanted the USSR might have fallen to Germany in 1941. The Germans could have put 50 more divisions in the invasion force and they would not have hit the Russian severe winter as early. May have been enough that Russia may have fallen since Germany would have had a few more weeks of good weather and more divisions. Russia was also lucky to have such a large country and so much land to fall back on.

    I also dont see WWII as just a ground war. Maybe it was for the USSR and they were lucky it was since they had no navy and a very bad air force at the begining of the war when Germany attacked. The did later build up a fair size air force but had no navy to speak off. I would have liked to have seen the USSR pull off D-day with its navy or lack of navy. Heck the US was landing on three differnt islands in the Pacific while also landing at Normandy with the British and Canadians.

    The US gave the USSR nearly 100 ships near the end of the war so the USSR could attack the Japanese on one of the smaller Japanese islands and the Japanese put a beating on the Russian troops that landed. And the USSR did not attack the Japanese in Manchuria until the war in Europe was over for 3 months to send troops there. The USA was fighting on many fronts at the same time but the USSR only fought on one front at a time during the war.

    And the number of troops involved ?? Well the USSR peaked at about 13 million and the USA peaked at 12.3 million. The USA had 7.6 million troops oversea's by the wars end fighting on all fronts on the ground , in the air and on the ocean's. They were not all in one front as the Russian troops were as the US troops were all over the world. Plus they had to get them all over the world and keep them supplied all over the world so they could fight as did many British and their empire troops did also. The USA also sent over 400,000 trucks and Jeeps to the USSR as the USA put the Russian army on wheels !

    Thats just a few facts that say the USSR did not win the war on it own nor could it have won the war all by itself. It took all the allies to win the war from many countries. And it did not matter if a country sent 20,000 troops or 3 million troops they stiil fought and died and helped win the war. Ron
    Last edited by 383man; 04-28-2015 at 12:25 AM.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: The role of the USSR in World War II

    Quote Originally Posted by 383man View Post
    Actually if Italy would not have needed Germany's help in Greece Germany would have attacked the USSR earlier and the fact that Germany had about 50 divisions in France because they had not defeated Britian. If Britian had fallen and Hitler had started the attack on the USSR weeks earlier like he wanted the USSR might have fallen to Germany in 1941. The Germans could have put 50 more divisions in the invasion force and they would not have hit the Russian severe winter as early. May have been enough that Russia may have fallen since Germany would have had a few more weeks of good weather and more divisions. Russia was also lucky to have such a large country and so much land to fall back on.
    The late winter thaw in 1941 did more to delay the Axis (Germans, Romanians, Slovakia, Italians, Finnish, Hungarians + all the rest - former PoW's, volunteers from various nations and conscripts from the occupied countries) than Germany assisting the Italians in Greece.

    The Axis forces arrayed to invade the Soviet Union were not all utilised immediately, whole divisions being kept as reserve (larger numbers were reserved than were employed in Greece).

    Germany could not provide its divisions in 1939 with all the equipment they needed - in 1941 with war booty and production from the occupied countries added to its own domestic production it could not provide all that was required to equip its own units - Contrast that with the allies that produced materiel for each other and had a surplus that they could provide to non aligned or neutral countries to keep them out of the war.

    By the time the Axis reached Moscow their manpower shortage was very acute, the majority of the divisions were exhausted from the long march, short of manpower and equipment, supplies were in short supply due to the distances involved as much as the weather, vehicles were worn out. The Axis had literally been bled to death.

    Lots of excuses can be made but seems it is not popular to say that it was the Soviets fighting desperately that halted the Axis.
    IN the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
    Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise
    An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
    With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes
    At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
    They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: The role of the USSR in World War II

    60 Million lives lost in WW2 .

  6. #66
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    Default Re: The role of the USSR in World War II

    SU role was invasion and take over of eastern Europe, whilst germany took over western Europe..... Until hitler invaded SU.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: The role of the USSR in World War II

    Quote Originally Posted by Wittmann View Post
    60 Million lives lost in WW2 .

    Not by the USSR as thats about how many the world lost in WW II. Ron

  8. #68
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    Default Re: The role of the USSR in World War II

    Quote Originally Posted by aly j View Post
    SU role was invasion and take over of eastern Europe, whilst germany took over western Europe..... Until hitler invaded SU.

    That is so true. Actually Britian and I think France were considering sending troops to help Finland fight the Russians who attacked the Finns after helping Hitler carve up Poland. Ron

  9. #69
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    Default Re: The role of the USSR in World War II

    Quote Originally Posted by 383man View Post
    That is so true. Actually Britian and I think France were considering sending troops to help Finland fight the Russians who attacked the Finns after helping Hitler carve up Poland. Ron
    Britain and France actually embarked winter trained units to go to Norway (if Norway allowed) and proceed to Finland - Finland seeked an end to the fighting first though so the British and French force was disbanded. They had an ulterior role though which was to have troops on the ground to forestall a German attempt to invade Norway.

    In the end Britain and France did send troops to occupy Norway and they landed around the same time as the Germans - the specially trained and equipped units though (on the British side at least) were no longer available so it was a hurried force of what ever was available with what equipment could be spared that was sent.
    IN the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
    Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise
    An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
    With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes
    At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
    They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: The role of the USSR in World War II

    Ron, where in my post about 60 Million lives lost did I mention the USSR?
    Last edited by Wittmann; 06-12-2015 at 01:03 AM.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: The role of the USSR in World War II

    Quote Originally Posted by Wittmann View Post
    Ron, where in my post about 60 Million lives lost did I mention the USSR?

    On that post nowhere as since the post is "The role of the USSR" I thought you may have meant the USSR lost 60 million. I guess since the USSR lost so many that sometimes many blow the number up even more. I dont get here as much as I would like so I did not realize how much you do know about the war as I now realize you know way to much to know that you did not mean just the USSR. But as I said I just thought you may have meant that but I jumped to the wrong conclusion and for that I appoligize as I meant no disrespect by it. Ron

  12. #72
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    Default Re: The role of the USSR in World War II

    No problem Ron.

    After re-reading my post I found it was very vague and I could easily see how you came to your conclusion. It's on me.

    Lets get back on topic on "The role USSR in World War 2".

    You brought up some interesting points along with Leccy.
    Last edited by Wittmann; 06-19-2015 at 09:50 PM.

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